Dan, If you haven't noticed, Steemit has a few bands of thugs strutting up and down dispensing downvotes with impunity to any up and coming bloggers who happen to get more and more upvotes. This is because these bloggers who work hard to earn the upvotes are now viewed as taking more away from the rackets these thugs run. In other words, popular bloggers make the thug's portion of the reward pie smaller and so the thugs arrange coordinated attacks with downvotes, fabricate evidence of bot usage as well as outright lie about multiple accounts. Worst, these thugs are the real ones raping the reward pool while putting out hypocritical agenda on why they will downvote anyone using votebots...all the while, they are the ones running the votebots. It's Fascism 101 and Hitler couldn't have done better. However, we all know how Hitler lost. He was destroyed because the world community united and removed him and his regime.
THE STEEMIT COMMINITY WILL REMOVE THESE THUGS AMONGST US!
Who are the Thugs? Just look at the downvoters of this comment! Because my near 10k followers all saw these Thugs' downvotes of recently posted blogs, they have now resorted to furtively downvoting my just about to be paid, six day old posts.
I WILL NOT BE AFRAID OF THESE THUGS NOR BE SILENCED BY THEM!!
The Witnesses have done nothing about these thugs...core developers have done nothing! Instead they reach out to bloggers like me who often get 10,000 views in the first few hours of posting and ask if I would decline my hard earned payouts....nuts! Have the witnesses and core developers themselves been intimidated into obedience to these thugs? Or, has the corruption soaked so deep?
Meanwhile, the thugs are still intimidating the Steemit community.
What would you propose?
Identity validation, vote canceling, dispute resolution, bonded behavior, n2 reward curve.
MIH! Make It Happen.
Who are the thugs? See the downvoters of my earlier comment!
I wish you and loved ones the happiest New Year!
I shall make this year different by making it the same.
Kindest Regards,
@haejin
If it hadn't been a hypocrite reducing your rewards and it had been for the benefit of the community rather than an excuse to line their own pockets, would you have reacted differently?
This is a genuine question.
Identity validation - is it not attempted already?
vote canceling - by who?
dispute resolution , bonded behavior - what do you mean?
n2 reward curve - you mean n^2 reward curve like before HF18?
Would it not make large abusers even more powerful?
Only difference for them, is that it would make them concentrate their Steem in less accounts.
When you say identity validation, do you mean connecting real-world identities to Steem identities? Or just identifying individuals on the network to prevent abuse by bots?
and on vote-canceling, I thought rewards pool is paid out periodically, and once it does that transaction is recorded and made irreversible.
dispute resolution would require Steemit to adopted a constitution, and there will elected individuals, mostly likely from the pool of Witnesses that would have to make decisions that are not programmatic, moving out from the realm of computer-science into legal theory. Do you think Steem is ready for that?
I don't quite understand the last two points but I'm very interested in what you've named as bonded behavior; can you elaborate?
@dan Identity validation seems pretty useless to me. At the end there are more dead people, than alive, so if there would be a need, it won’t be a problem to get as many identities as needed. I believe that’s the wrong path. The better one would be to leave all curation to the users and focus on growing the community as much as possible (crab bucket mentality).
Happy New year @dan! My opinion is to have:
reputation separate from SP and it should be harder to gain and easier to loose?
Have random upvote periods (encrypted for 7 days) so that it's harder to coordinate attacks.
Proof-of-human® is also essential but how to do it? Sign/Hash/Encrypt all your fingersprints and ask randomly for one of those prints? A couple of modern phones have digital fingerprint readers...
Proof-of-human
Proof-of-ban-from-china. How to hide your person when goverment is coming?
Well, don't use your real name and use a VPN? Or Tor?
Dear @dan! I have met with interest very many of your proposals. For Steem completely different algorithm at the blockchain level is needed, which would help eliminate any abusements. Mathematics is power! Let's try to come up with such an algorithm.
Maybe we should make all the content anonymous? Do not pay attention to the authors, vote only for worthy posts. Maybe you just need to increase curatorial rewards or even cancel them altogether.
All problems in the field of high technology should be solved with the help of mathematics. I completely agree with the opinion of some people that at the moment very much does not work correctly.
It is not advantageous for me to vote for "quality content" because it brings very little money. Nobody wants to waste their time picking diamonds for other people. The award to the curators must at least be increased 1000 times. Yes. I said it right. People who are looking for great articles need to earn more. This is my main idea.
The very Idea that self voting earns a reward is bizarre to me. If we must assign a value for a self vote we could make it negative couldn't we? Then it shows that the author is willing to make the sacrifice to stand behind their own work so maybe you should up vote it too.....
Hello @dan, I wanna see how these thugs can add a flag on this post.
Please check out this screen shot below and decide for yourself.
This is what I have earned below personally by following @haejin blogs.
I am also for identitiy validation, thanks
@haejin, I'm saddened by the fact that you still don't get it. I'd like for you to set your rage aside for a moment and try to understand the points I'm about to make.
There is no "band of thugs". Steemit is a community made up of individual users. There are no leaders. There are those with more stake than others, but there are no leaders. The people who downvote you are individuals who believe the rewards you receive are not worth the content you provide. It is not only their right, but their responsibility to do what is in their power to correct that.
See #1. The corrections you experienced were due to the actions of individuals, very few of which had any power to make a noticeable dent in your earnings. Their grievances are as follows:
a. You are receiving dedicated upvotes from a single (@ranchorelaxo) user whose $300+ upvote single-handedly gives you an unfair advantage over similar posts and a disproportionate piece of the reward pool. This user seems to be under your direct control or influence. This affects everybody.
b. The conditions of a. are compounded by the fact that you post prolifically 7-9 times a day. This makes the unfair advantage and disproportionate take you have much more of an issue and of greater concern to the community at large.
c. The content of your many posts often consists of 2 images and a couple of sentences. This is not great content. You will point to your expertise and that would be fine if your followers were paying you out of their own pocket, but they're not. They're paying you with funds from the reward pool.
3.Witnesses have no power to redistribute the reward pool. I don't think you quite understand the meaning of decentralization. The community at large is charged with the responsibility to handle reward pool distribution. If anybody has a responsibility to correct this issue, it is you and the other whales who are on this platform. You want it fixed? You are going to have to engage those whales in discourse, not some flag war.
If you want to resolve this thing, you are going to have to be able to understand and even articulate the grievances of the community opposed to you in a fair way. You have to listen and understand. When you feed trolls, you become one. Do no harm.
You are uninformed and blind to what's going on.
You fail to mention the following:
How have these thugs been downvoting? With lies and fabricated evidences. Thug tactics.
How does this fit into your input?
https://steemit.com/steemit/@contentjunkie/epic-reward-pool-rapist-grumpycat-unveils-fascist-roadmap
How many of my posts have you followed? They are NOT one or two liners. You clearly don't understand Technical Analysis. Perhaps if you follow rather than base your comment on a cursory look, you can benefit too. The 5k to 10k views are not for usesless contents, as you indicate. Perhaps if you follow my example, you too can get 10k views in a few hours and increase your payouts to above $5 range. I've reviewed you blogs, and they need a lot of improvement and I'd be willing to help, if you'd like.
Technical analysis require timely updates. You can't bundle a whole bunch of analysis for multiple coins. This had been suggested to reduce my payouts but is based on ignorance.
If there are those who have profited MASSIVELY from my analysis and want to reward my blogs with UpVotes, I have zero issues!
No upvotes are under my control. All received upvotes are freely given.
What you don't like is the amount. So, why are the Thugs who take greater amounts than me attacking me? Why are YOU not commenting on how these Thugs are raping the reward pool? Are you even aware? Here is an example: https://steemit.com/kr/@skt1/starjuno
Google translate it.
Do you even realize how much rewards will be released once these thugs stop raping the reward pool?
Finally, I sense your comment is based on how you feel it is unacceptable for my blogs to earn so much while yours earn so little. All I can say is: EARN IT!!
I too shall UpVote your blogs once inprovements are seen. I mean this genuinely.
That is after downvoting by a single whale (under multiple accounts) and a few minnows/planktons. Do you really expect us to feel sorry for you? Are you really making the case that your blogs are worth that much more? 3 days, @haejin.
Funny you should bring that up. The actions by @grumpycat were inspired by you. It is a hyperbolic metaphor of what you and @ranchorelaxo are doing. It's more disgusting than you guys, but it is a copycat crime. You are a whale. You have the power to do something about it. What actions did you take to stop it?
I understand your analysis to the extent that it benefits this platform. I had actually watched several of your videos and understand the content you are relating to your audience. I still don't think it deserves that much of the reward pool. That is my right as a steemian and the right of the whales as well. I have never downvoted your blog out of fear of reprisal (which you have proven that you carry out). Many other plankton and minnows are the same way. There are a lot of non-vocal critics of your take from the rewards pool.
3a. You've read my blog? I didn't know you were into poetry. Post some of that shit. Let's see if it doesn't shoot up to what $300, $400. I would bet my entire stake that it would. Are you some world renowned poet? No. Even if you were, I'd oppose such a payout. You didn't read my blog, man. GTFOH. Practice what you preach.
I know you don't. I do and much of the community does. It is not their money. It is the reward pool and the community is in charge of distributing that money. We have every right to correct what we don't agree with. In fact, I would say we have a responsibility. Now they can transfer funds to you on steemit. I'm fine with that. That money doesn't come from the reward pool.
My blogs are doing just fine for me. I don't expect to get rich off of the reward pool. The market on steemit for poetry is not the same as the market for crypto discussion/analysis. My conclusions come from analyzing your posts against similar ones.
Your poetry, if you call it that, is both good and original. It's just that what's good isn't very original and what's original isn't very good.
My genuine review of your blogs.
LOL, I know this thread is old, but I wanted to point out the hypocrisy of calling me unoriginal while using an insult from Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, you're no Einstein.
Hey @introvertspeaks, you do poetry too? Man, looks like there are a lot more poets on here than I thought. I'll check out some of your stuff. I looked at your blog and didn't see any in there. Maybe it's buried. @haejin says it's in there, so he must be right (he is right 90% of the time afterall). I did see a meme that was ironically appropriate to this conversation.
"The Ocean Is So Deep but a Duck Doesn't Give a Shit"
So just as @haejin might not give a shit about your poetry, we don't give a shit about @haejin's analysis. [/sarcasm] While his products may well serve those who use them, I don't feel compelled to support payment of those services out of the rewards pool. I look at his rewards and I see no justification for the reward pool to pay for those services beyond the astronomical figures he is already making. You're right. The silence on those points is, in fact, deafening. I wish we could get him to acknowledge that so we could move on to solutions for this riff.
When 99,9% of crypto is booming, you don’t need any brains to make useless predictions that some crypto will grow. You are trying to benefit from the community, while you on your own are a stakeholder. If you had some brains, you would not damage your own stake. One of the main reasons I would not invest in Steem are morons like you.
You are uninformed. Your group I affectionately call the innocent and the idiots. Continue as you have been.
@haejin, I don't understand why I am getting downvoted repeatedly. The original post regarding the 481 accounts was not speculation, it was based on actual transactions pulled from the blockchain. Nothing in the post was fabricated. Could I have been more objective, certainly, and I edited my post to do so. Your posts are based off of real data, so I would think that you would appreciate my use of data as well.
Moving past that, I might even understand you downvoting that post because it could be interpreted as an attack, but downvoting a 70 cent photography post? Really? What does that accomplish?
You give it a shot then, seeing as it takes no brains to make these "useless" predictions....one of which just profited over 1000%. Your accounts will end and begin with zeros if you think you can just throw your money around in a mindless market. If you are as accurate as he is, I will follow you and share your posts every day. I look forward to your attempts.
Good luck out there. Pseudoscience.....it's all based on math. Keep tossing your money at random coins, lemme know how it goes.
If you can make a huge profit from those 1 image and text posts, then probably it is a valuable content.
For example, I became a Dolphin from profits of trading based on those 1 image posts.
And he is highly rewarded for that. He currently has over $6000 in rewards coming to him in the next 7 days. That is not taking market value of the SBD into account. This while his income was justly reduced due to the flag wars. The guy is doing fine. His influence while high still only affects a small percentage of users and the reward pool is subject to the whims of all. If you guys want to reward him for those posts, simply transfer steem or sbd into his account. Nobody has any say in what you do with your money. The reward pool, on the other hand, is governed by the community.
By my estimates, the market value for his take will be more than 18k (very conservative). That's a lot of money over 7 days and it is just odd that he's here fighting for more and complaining about it.
It is OK to invest into Steem, but when we start to use our shares and become part of community we are no more welcome. Very good community.
You are welcome, but that doesn't mean all have to agree on your choices for how the reward pool gets distributed. You're trying to convince me to use my limited sphere of influence to ensure that @haejin gets more from this platform than he already has. I say "No". I say he has too much already. How do you justify to me or anyone else that he should be getting a greater share than he already is? That is with a whale downvoting him and diminished capacity to upvote his own stuff and @ranchorelaxo's diminished capacity to give him his obligatory $300+ upvote. I'm sorry, but no. That doesn't make any sense to me. If you want to reward him for giving you sound advice, do it out of your own pocket. Giving him reward pool money is not an appropriate reward for a personal show of gratitude.
My sentiment exactly. Why not just buy STEEM instead of trying to be successful on Steemit, Success is met with harsh lies and criticism here. Unless of course you are part of the Steemit Mafia.
How much criticism did Haejin receive before Rancho started giving him $300 a post? How much millions are you prepared to spend in order to buy the pot? The community at large is not using your services. Why should the community at large pay for them?
Why did you guys just go silent on this debate? I felt we were getting somewhere.
I see no point in commenting when it matters not what I say for it to be flagged to hidden.
I just saw your response though....and how many millions? Not sure, guess it matters how many millions it takes. Downvotes/Flags are fine, but lies and slander are not. I apologize for not extending the conversation. It has gone round and round and round on and off the chain with many people, and gets to be very old saying the same things again and again, but I do realize everything can't read everything. Most of my time is used working on TA and building the brand. Any free discussion time has literally gotten us nowhere so far, so forgive me if I don't feel very confident in reiterating my side of the debate again. You seem reasonable, which is very nice to encounter. If there are any specific questions you have, I'm happy to respond. All the other he said she said has run thin to me.
He’ll never understand this because he’s a greedy, entitled little man.
you think you're the only one who can add $4 Mil in SP? We shall match and exceed it!
Good! Make me more rich in the process!!!
Problem with this theory is that we are not damaged if the price falls, as we are true investors and traders. Why you want to fight a group of people all making so much money baffles me, but you seem to think your 4 Mil SP means something in this battle...and that's just funny knowing what I know. We await your threatened time limit to expire. Remember that you are choosing the nuclear option. You should have received the alternate options by this point, only one of which helps everybody....with the exception of those you defraud daily. Your next action dictates the fate of all those you claim to care about in this system. Walk away, run your scams, live to fight another day.
If you think what you see is what you get, you're wrong. I've been around far longer than all of you and understand how things work around here far better than all of you.
Like I've said. I already did my job, your master is earning far less than he was in the past and his earnings are only going to continue to decline.
You must have missed my post the other day: https://steemit.com/steem/@berniesanders/i-have-won
Moron.
Says the Reward Rapist and provocator of fabricated evidence against successful bloggers! Was caught red handed in his fabrication of evidences used to Thug his way around and try intimidating. Didn't work!
Another lie by @haejin the moron. Everyone can see, again, on the fucking blockchain, where that image originated and the owner of the website posting about the issue ON HIS WEBSITE, NOT THE IMAGE.
Please, buy SP, you’re finally getting the point. Moron.
So you make a post based on someone else's work that is incorrect, and you take no fault for that. You post no retraction. You only make things worse. Just like the rise of Haejin's blog is something like you've never seen, so will the retaliation be if you choose to strike like you have promised by 11:30PM tonight.
The people who downvoted you are not a band or collaborating with each other like you are saying. They are individuals with their own views.
If your downvoters were a band, you would already be shut down. @randowhale and @grumpycat combined have 1.7m SP. If we add my and other downvoters' sp, then it will be about 3m. If @transisto joined in downvoting you, then it will be above 4m SP. Surely you will be shut down if we all were a band.
The band is actually you and your followers. You organized your followers and got huge delegation from them. Then you started using it to downvote and censor others who criticized you and the insane reward pool allocation you got.
Don't lie. Tell the truth.
Can you explain about what I am lying?
Who was it that censored this post:
Who is it that almost killed off justinashby's blog?
I don't see a single post in your blog below zero. If you think you can continue doing this, you are mistaking.
Hey @dan why are you upvoting this guy while talking about freedom of speech?
In between all these meaningful discussions, the above comment gets $330. I pretty much rest my case.
I've also got plenty more, if needed. He'd have to really jack up the market to get anywhere near the amount of SP he's up against.
From my perspective, you are one of the thugs at the moment.
Your vindictive/retalitory down voting of others isn't good form and isn't helping Steem.
Just to clarify: witnesses has nothing to do with upvote/downvote drama. Even when casting a vote, witnesses are in the same position as every other (i.e. non-witness) user of the Steem platform. Of course usually witnesses has SP at levels above the average, but even in such case as mine (I've never powered down my witness account, covering all costs using external sources) my SP is negligible compared to involved parties)
Old but not obsolete: Fun with Flags.
Just an innocent question:
As you said, a user may get flagged due to these reasons also-
Lets ponder on a scenario where someone is betting against steem and is so powerful that he just get bots flagging every genuine blogger. Everyone is in chaos, the value of steem tanks.
What now?
NOTE: I believe we will need to come up with a game theory consistent, consensus driven grievance mechanism or watch the doomsday.
To act against Steem in that way Malice would have to control 50% Steem Power (locked in for 13 weeks) making him the biggest loser of such stupid actions.
Do you mean like the thugs who downvoted this post? https://steemit.com/technology/@themarkymark/the-wadsworth-constant
The post was about videos and had nothing to do with the spat. It's easy enough to use Steemd to see that it was people who support you who downvoted it. Who are you calling thugs?
Nice kawan
To some extent, you're right. We can not determine the usefulness of the content. I'm afraid that ideas from Dan can lead to dictatorship. Even the best ideas lead to dictatorship. This is problem. This is a very difficult task that no one has yet decided.
If you put flags on each of his posts this will not solve the problem. Current algorithm Steem allows you to abuse your power.
@haejin acts according to the algorithms of Steem and therefore he is in some way right.
Grumpycat also acts according to the algorithms of Steem. Is he right? Part of the algorithm allows for the community whether whale or minnow to correct them. You can't accept the algorithm to exploit the system then go crying for government when the mechanism to stop the exploit is also put in play.
The community has every right to analyze the worth. They are paying for it. Here's an example of what is happening.
I have a product that I have sold here on steemit. I sold this product for 35 Steem. Now, what if, instead of selling that product directly, i would accept upvotes for that product. So @haejin could come along and upvote my post for $35 bucks and I would send him my product. Did @haejin pay for that product? No. Is mu product worth 35 Steem? It probably is to @haejin. Is it worth 35 Steem to you? No, because you didn't benefit from it. By allowing unchecked access to the reward pool, all steemians are paying for @haejin's services whether they use them or not. That is not right. The fact that we have access to them means nothing if we don't want it. We are allowed and encouraged to have a say in those rewards. That must be respected and even rejoiced in.
hello haejin
#2nd reply ..
yeahooo|||||
Hey #dan
Thats a great post,,
i am a big #fan of you,,
keep it up,,
i always #support you
Thank you @dan
Excellent reply @haejin!
the idea of having a special downvote for the account itself becomes more and more important in order to make sure that such actions slowly but surely become obsolete over time. Thanks a lot for your continuous positive and creative presence on our platform.
Namaste :)
I'd propose you learn how the system works, ya moron.
You're only getting a significant vote from ONE user, the rest of your sheep don't have shit and everyone is starting to realize that. That's exactly why you're getting flagged and I've even stopped!
I told you to figure it out, now look at what has happened, you're spending time crying and trying to troll.
Exactly as much as I don't like you downvoting just because you put a lot of money into the system inspite of having such a low reputation you nailed it!