We don't agree, and I hate to argue, but if we don't talk, how will we learn and advance understanding? The community is great. Thank you for running it.
As for quote, this is it, exactly:
" She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. OK? Let's see how she feels about it, you know when the guns are trained on her face."
In the past I have used the expression chicken hawk...not very polite. I have used it (Iraq War) in reference to the Cheneys. But, using that imagery, of shooting rifles in her face--that is violent and provocative. We have had Jan. 6. Two assassination attempts of Trump. A hammer attack on Pelosi's husband. Violence is in the air and Trump knows it. When he uses language like that, it is shouting fire in a crowded theater. Trump knows exactly what he is doing. It's not an accident that he uses violent rhetoric. It also is not a democratic impulse. It is the impulse of an autocrat.
That's what I believe. Besides the policies he advocates, with which I don't agree, he behaves like a bully. That's bad enough on the street, with every day people. But someone who may wield the power he may have in just a week... that's a terrifying prospect.
I know you disagree, but I find it hard to believe that you don't see his bullying, his intimidating behavior, his threats. And I can't believe that behavior is OK.
This is why I fear for the future. I know you don't. But there you go. We live in a country where, so far we can disagree and walk away still with respect for each other.
Thank you, again, for providing a forum for discussion. It is important.
I was passing by, I just wanted to quickly comment on this:
Most Trump supporters seem to acknowledge his troubling behavior but vary in how they perceive its significance. Some view his rhetoric as merely humorous or irrelevant, while others believe it raises awareness of controversial issues.
When you take it in isolation, it always sounds pretty awful. But if you follow him enough, and hear him also say things like 'I want everybody to stop dying', 'I want to end the wars', 'it's terrible what our people are suffering through', and various condemnations of criminals and general violence, you start to see a bigger picture of his big personality, that he is actually a proponent of peace, with a sharp tongue that speaks before his brain kicks in.
With that context I think most people understand he's not saying Cheney should be shot, but more what is a very common narrative historically among normal everyday people:
So I think it's perfectly valid to condemn this kind of bullying narrative, but I also think it's easy to see why so many people are willing to cut through it and get to the meat of what he's saying.
It is awful. This is not a textual analysis of Shakespeare. This is a politician. He's responsible for what comes out of his mouth. It's not art. It's not interpretive. It's not a consideration of his life's ouvre--it's what he says. If you think he's a nice guy who is misunderstood...well, then, that's what you believe.
He is an oaf and a bully. If he came to dinner at my house and talked like that about anyone, I would ask him to leave. Handing such a person the almost unlimited power of the presidency, based on the guess that he really doesn't mean it...really???
He had the power once before - and this time he is far more prepared with a team of great people instead of nasty insiders.
You and many others dislike how gruff he can be. I appreciate it because I know what I'm going to get. With the career politicians like Pelosi, Cheney and others you have zero clue what they are doing is genuine, and have a deep suspicion what they are doing is subterfuge and corrupt. I know what I get with trump, there's a far smaller chance he's hiding something.
For your other comment - I indeed find this to be such a critical time to have discussions and challenge each other respectfully on topics! We shouldn't go to a shouting match and end up with name calling. Sometimes that happens but there should be apologies afterwards to keep things civil.
One thing I do dislike about him and how this has shifted things is that people are a lot less respectful. There is little formality and politeness in politics BUT when you have a really evil group of media companies who repeat the same hateful comments like calling him a Nazi, all day every day without any question, discussion of the alternative or substance to the potential argument then this is what the end result is.
Because the media is SO corrupt and SO blatant with it all - Trump is a big middle finger to all of the dinosaurs behind it. They are losing their grip and power and it terrified them. That's why they are pushing so hard to try and make people like yourself hate him. They focus on the quite frankly childish components of him and what he says. Instead of the fact that he does things like accepts a soldiers body that came back from somewhere because Biden or Harris were too busy with stupid shit that wasn't as important as the dignity and respect of a family who lost their son, father and husband. Trump, even though he is not the current president, accepted the invitation to pay his respects for the family. You don't get ANY of that from the current group and it's sickening. There is absolutely no respect for dignity. Biden has been caught numerous times checking his watch at these events which is a gigantic slap in the face for the people who have sacrificed their lives so we can live beautiful lives, and have these important discussions.
Yes he says things that are ridiculous but the most important elements of him are his policies, his desire to make people in America stable, fed and paid for what they do. The current regime is so blatant with how they despise you and I, we are just tax cattle to them to be extorted and that's clear as day. Ohio, North Carolina and Maui are three massive examples of opportunities for these people to actually step up and care about their fellow Americans and they absolutely failed, and actually made it all worse in the process. It's appalling how little they care and they don't make it subtle either. Buttigieg is very open about his disdain for the common people, intentionally diverting funds away from these efforts.
It's a systemic problem and I do wonder how we will survive. We need to bridge these gaps they are wedging between us citizens because if we don't - we are cooked.
Edit - by the way I voted for Bernie in 2016 for similar reasons. He was an outsider that was embarrassing the political class and destroyed their foolish attempts at making him look bad. It’s unfortunate, we can’t prove it, but that he got the 3AM “shut up or your family is dead” call. One day it all changed and now he’s getting shit loads of money - it’s not a coincidence. I’m upset he gave in but he didn’t have the name or resources that Trump does.
I love your passion. And I believe essentially you and I want the same thing: a government that serves the people. We both don't want a warmongering government. I was one of the few people I knew who opposed the War in Iraq before we went. When everyone was applauding Shock and Awe, I was disgusted.
I voted for Bernie. I gave him money. I gave Tulsi money. I almost always give money to an outlier because I believe we need more voices in government. I can't understand Buttigieg's popularity. Hillary was obnoxious and arrogant. She was anointed by a corrupt party structure. I'm sure you felt the same way.
But you and I do not agree about Trump. I agree he speaks his mind. But since we are being honest, I will be honest with you. I believe almost everything he says--not the good stuff, the vile stuff. The stuff where he threatens people, where he insults the disabled, where he disdains women. I don't hear these things from the press. I hear these things from his mouth.
I studied history and learned that the only reliable sources are first-person accounts, original sources. He is the original source. I listen to his words and find him profoundly offensive. I find he has no understanding of the Constitution. When he suggests parts of it be discarded, I believe he means that. He suggested that in his Jan 6 speech, and has suggested it since. I didn't hear this from a newscaster. I heard this from Trump.
And then there is the reproductive rights issue, not a big issue for you, but a giant issue for me, as a woman, as a mother, as a grandmother. When my granddaughter is expecting a child, if that time comes, she will not have access to medical care that I had when I was carrying my children, not if she lives in certain states. If she is having an emergency during pregnancy, doctors will be afraid to treat her if it might endanger the fetus, because they can be charged with murder. Women are dying in pregnancy because hospitals and doctors are afraid to treat them and injure the fetus. Trump did that.
Nobody likes abortion, but when Roe V. Wade was overturned--Trump's proud handiwork--he put the lives of women at risk. That's a big deal for me.
I'm sorry, but you and I will not agree politically, not about Trump. I think we have many of the same values, we simply do not see this man in the same way.
I can't wish you good luck tomorrow. I'm dreading the potential outcome, but whatever it is I will accept it. The sun will shine again, and I will do my best to make this country as honest and as good as it can be.
EDIT:
Hi @cmplxty: He won. I feel sick but I accept the result. I will not march on the Capitol, I promise ☘️
I didn't say he's nice and misunderstood - Please don't fall into the trap most people do in this heated issue - if people like me ever offer even an inkling of another perspective, it's feels offensive to even be in that person's presence.
I've said many times I don't support Trump, and agreed numerous times about his foibles. My point is simply, these things matter more to you than they do to other people. Other people put higher priority in things like various economic choices, reducing death tolls in war, and so on. People perceive his oafishness and bully persona as a strength when it comes to dealing with bigger bullies like Putin, for example.
There are a large number of people - men and women - who feel sick to their stomachs about the very idea of 'murdering babies'. In fact, Trump was recently boo'd on stage by his own audience for suggesting a more liberal approach to it. Bizarre! That's religion for you...
So, there's always another side to everything - and the fact opponents have consistently and repeatedly refused to accept that, is precisely why he just won in a landslide...
51%/47.4 popular vote, 276/223 Electoral vote is not a landslide in anyone's book. And she will have a stronger finish than that, because they are not done counting in California (Democratic state).
The people elected him. I accept the result. I will not march on the Capitol, assault police officers and threaten the life of the legislators and Vice President.