It's time for a change.
Stop the crazy spending on projects or events that haven't shown results or transparency.
Also, the APR on Hive Power should be higher than the APR on HBD.
Maybe this is our last chance to do something for Hive.
I want to see what the reaction of the community is. Hopefully, we can come together to save the chain once again, despite our differences.
You have a point. Hive power should be more valued.
Yes, it should be more attractive to invest in HIVE.
The HBD accounts were created to sink small investments into instead of Hive, where they would potentially vote on witnesses. More Hive voting for witnesses would make the control of the witnesses, and the code they run, maintained by the ~36 whales who keep more than 50% but less than 51% of the stake on Hive, more expensive to maintain.
development is worth spending on
events are not
Depends on the type of development and if they are showing results or not.
Also the type of events, because there are some that are worth it, others are not.
Developments you can analyze their outputs yourself, you just have to take people's word that events did anything of use.
I don't disagree but the second part of this comment is a bit excessive and dramatic - no offense. Hive will be fine. There's no "saving" of the chain when it isn't at risk of being unsaved - whatever that may mean. As well as "our last chance", maybe it's the last one for you and me, but there'll be other people coming along, and the chain will be here to accustom them.
Yes most likely correct, Hive will no doubt, be here, its the dilution that is the issue for the ppl who have been here building and working for years, it is a complete injustice, and if dilution happens to a reasonable extent (which is now highly likely), there is little to no chance that Hive can regain credibility and reasonably expect people to build or invest in future, since if it can happen once to the OGs here, then it can happen again in future to the next group of users who want to invest.
I Appreciate your inputs Acid!
Why is it an injustice? Yes people have been building and working for years, but that hasn't been very successful. If some new blood comes along and changes the trajectory for the better, why should the old farts who contributed to it all stagnating for years be protected from dilution just because they were first? That doesn't sound like a very attractive proposition to new blood.
Its an injustice because many of the people being funded by the DHF have not lost a single penny and have earned well, while that value has been transferred via inflation from accounts of Hive Power holders to their own. The Hive Power holders had no idea that the DHF could inflate the chain to such an extent, and had this been known, i very much doubt that as many people would have held Hive Power so religiously all this time.
I appreciate that maybe the tremendous amount of money disbursed from the DHF was not necessarily done to inflate away the positions of Hive Power holders, Im sure it was done with good intention in an attempt to build value for the ecosystem, but, the only other alternative position that is then acceptable is that we are some of the most naive people when it comes to managing a money printing economy in a professional way that protects investors and grows the value of their stakes (dont get me started on how much money has been thrown away with zero accountability and how only a very small group of people have the ability to direct inflation on this chain at this point, Value plan for example where one person can decide what they want to do with 2% of the chain's annual inflation, which is now funding rally cars and acrobats in Venezuela, a water pipeline in Venezuela that it totally corrupt, water boreholes that should be now showing local economic activity, but instead just keep printing evermore expensive boreholes... anyway the list goes on and on, almost endlessly).
HP holders are down 97% from the top, the whole time we were losing coin market cap rank while also saying that "we weren't spending enough compared to other chains". That spending has now added 60 Million Hive to the supply on top of the scheduled programmatic inflation.
Its not an injustice from the point of view that there is an aggressor and a victim, however, it is an injustice from the point of view that neither investors nor users voting for DHF funding knew that there was a scenario where 60 million Hive could be added to the supply on top of programmatic inflation by voters from the DHF.
At least more people are now aware of this issue, including, i think people at the top of the chain, and we can now work towards fixing it with the tools that are already built, or not, and if we choose not to and that inflates the chain significantly more (which is the path we are currently on) then at least it is more clear for future investors what they are getting themselves into and where the community can (and most likely will) use the DHF to transfer an unreasonable / unsustainable amount of value out to future elected DHF projects via inflation of their HP investments.
Ideally as a community we choose to change course and collectively reduce outflows from the DHF to match the of the size of the economy. This course of action will make us much more anti fragile than we would have been in the next bull market, had we not have been through this test and passed it successfully.
With all due respect, the algorithms, including how DHF budgets payouts to develop the ecosystem, have always been public, and if you didn't understand how it could result in a larger supply of HIVE, that's on you as an investor.
Yes, DHF contracts are for a fixed value, while HP and HIVE holders have both upside and downside. Again, this is for HIVE/HP holders to understand and decide if they want to hold or not.
Its not that I didnt understand, i understand very well. I have been talking about reducing the budget via DHF outflows for well over a year to prevent the situation the chain finds itself in now. The tool to limit DHF outflows was always to "vote the return proposal", which clearly didn't / doesn't work. Obviously the community is not capable to manage its own economy with the tools available.
Blockchain tech was supposed to take the ability for the community to print money away from it and put it into programmatic code. Which Hive has failed to do.
Sounds like the code needs updating to limit the outflows from the DHF. The lack of a cap on DHF outflows means Hive's economy has a huge exploitable weakness which is a major security risk.
I would argue, rather, that it is doing exactly what stakeholders want and have voted for. That it isn't want you want have wanted doesn't make it a failure, it just means you were outvoted.
That's false. Hive inflation is fully programmatic, but programmatic doesn't mean fixed or even necessarily low. It's dependent on price trajectory along with the supply of HBD, and this has always been the case going back to the first release of STEEM. It's not a fixed supply like Bitcoin nor fixed inflation like DOGE, but that gets back to knowing what you own. (In fact, it used to be more variable, but some guardrails were added, especially the haircut rule.)
Hive also differs in that governance allows the community to change the rules pretty easily. That works both ways though, it can be made better (from one observer's perspective at least) as well as worse. Again, caveat emptor. If you want hard money with immutable (or at least harder to change) rules, Hive is a bad fit.
Bring back the whale experiment!
The more changes we have made to the original design the less I've liked it.
It's almost as if somebody wants us to fail.
Can't really blame them, imo, we do appear real similar to an ungrateful mob.
Control freaks gotta control.™
Yeah, I mean I'm pretty much on the receiving end much like most people not holding insane HBD savings or getting excessive DHF funding, the inflation has definitely hurt and we're feeling it in many ways than just the price. I'm just trying to keep a clear head, saying overdramatic things and overreacting to things we should've reacted to a long time ago isn't going to help much, it may in fact make some things worse - like cutting off some crucial funding or developments that may take us to the next level short because we're suddenly too focused on saving every penny than understanding that some projects may be good long term for hive. Again not trying to be biased here with my project's proposal but trying to talk generally.
I do appreciate people finally looking into these things more closely however and the time and effort you and the people who put this post forward and countless discussions that have been had and will probably still be had. Kudos, let's hope we can go back deflationary for a few years in the future as we saw in a couple previous years on that chart by dalz!
Yes, maybe it was a bit dramatic, but I've seen people taking advantage of Hive through VP (and GP) and no one does nothing. It actually backfired to me when I reported and I considered to stop building here.
And yes, the chain might not disappear, but would it be worth it? That's the question. How many witnesses or projects will stay active with HIVE at 0.05 or at 0.01? And we are probably won't be going that low, but it's a possibility if people keep scamming and printing money like crazy.
Maybe this is part of the issue with the way some think about things here, and I'm not directing this your way specifically, but. If people are going to instantly shut down their witness or project just cause the price of hive isn't great or you get unfunded for a few days, maybe you're not here for the right reasons.
Yeah, I know. In my case, I don’t mean shutting down the witness because that’s only about $50 a month. However, I do plan to get a full node, and with the current prices, I can’t afford that unless I get a part-time or full-time job elsewhere. That’s complicated because I already invest a lot of time on Hive, so I’d have to delegate more, and there are some things that are difficult to delegate.
Anyway, let’s see how things progress from here. I hope that things can improve, and we can all continue building. I have several projects on my backlog, and I’m excited about what we’ve accomplished with Mantequilla-Soft, the open-source project with @meno and @kesolink.