Welcome to another edition of "Daily Discussion," a community engagement initiative designed to stimulate more interaction on Steemit!
To learn more about the Daily Discussion initiative, please visit the Introductory Post for a full description and participation guidelines.
Steemit, Engagement and the Upvote-Bot Controversy
What is the way out of this mess?
Unless you've been hiding under a rock, I'm sure you're aware this is a hot topic, these days... Are upvote bots destroying the Steemit social content platform? Are people in it "just for the money?" Why doesn't a lot of true quality content get seen? Is the system broken? Should bots be banned? Does the Steemit social site even matter?
A number of Steemians have written at length about upvote-bots, engagement, quality content, SMTs and the future of Steemit.
Does anyone have a conclusive answer? Not sure they do... but a lot of ideas are being aired.
Sorting Apples from Oranges
One of the first things to consider is that there's some ambiguity in terminology floating around.
Winter sunset
Biggest of these-- at least to my mind-- is the way "Steemit" and "Steem" get mixed together and are used interchangeably... but they are not really the same thing.
For the purposes of this post, I am mainly concerned with the future of Steemit, the social content front end of the Steem blockchain. With all the apps being developed, the proposed SMTs and other initiatives, I'm sure the blockchain and the Steem currency will be fine.
But what's going on with our Social Content ecosystem? Have we become "orphaned" because everyone is more interested in developing SMTs? Will there still be a place for content creators here, a couple of years down the road?
Do We All Want What's Best for Steemit?
For a few weeks, I've been doing a lot of reading... trying to gather perspectives.
Red Fall Leaf
In one of his posts, @lukestokes advised people to examine their expectations for what Steemit IS. That has been ringing in my head ever since I read it... I came here as a blogger/content creator, and I recognize that I have held expectations that the powers that be would want to maximize the attractiveness of the Steemit social content platform-- quality content, community, engagement.
But those are my expectations.
They are not everyone's expectations.
Many see this merely as part of a bigger picture to help them develop apps and initiatives for the Steem blockchain.
An even larger group of people-- maybe even the majority of Steemit's users-- see this as little more than a fancy "coin dispenser" where the objective of being here is to use whatever means necessary to get as many rewards as possible in the shortest possible time.
Hence the proliferation of upvote-bots, guilds, groups, re-steem services, Steem Power delegations and more.
To one group of people, it's "seizing an opportunity," to another it's "reward pool rape."
If the Front End Sucks, Will the Back End Survive?
Every time I try to understand the complex issue of Steemit and how we can best all get our expectations met (if we CAN?), I keep coming back to the same place:
Purple Clover
If we all consider ourselves "invested" in Steemit to some degree-- as developers, as content creators, as social interactors, as reward seekers-- isn't the ultimate objective we ALL have in common that we want this place to not only survive, but also thrive?
Which makes me ponder whether it is simply short sighted to not pay attention to developing a thriving front end Steemit community... because that is ultimately the "growth engine" that can onboard and introduce thousands and millions of people to Steem and Steemit? As a result of which your app and your investments will be more valuable... I worry that short-sightedness is creating a situation where we're killing the goose that's laying golden eggs...
That's why I believe the social content platform and developing thriving connection and engagement is really important for the future objectives of everyone.
Isn't our (ultimate) common goal that we would love to:
Seagull in flight
Experience a time when the Steem token is worth $10 or more?
Have a place where we can be part of a great social content site?
Have a great core venue around which we can develop new apps?
Be part of a "movement" towards an alternative decentralized economy?
Have a place where we can earn rewards, 2, 5 and 10 years from now?
These are not mutually exclusive... in fact, they all work hand in hand.
What IF the imbalance is caused by us looking at each of those as "separate" objectives?
Before we get to the Q&A part... I would also invite you to read @stellabelle's recent post concerning a solution to the vote selling problem. It's important, in the sense that it represents a "toe in the water" moment where there's an invitation to meaningful cooperation between different "philosophies" on Steemit. Well worth a read.
Let's Discuss!
Lots of questions to consider here!
What IS Steemit, to you? A social content platform, a place to develop apps, a place to develop apps for the blockchain, a place to earn rewards, something to invest in? When you engage in whatever it is you do here... do you ever consider the part of "will this still BE here, 5 years from now?" What is your time horizon? Is there too much short term thinking here? Do you even THINK about a time horizon? If not, why not? Is it even important to you for Steemit to survive and thrive? Whether you are very interactive or not, do you think "engagement and community" is important for the overall well-being of Steemit, simply from the perspective that an attractive social community attracts new users? Instead of the current "us vs. them" atmosphere or bot developers and content creators... would we be better off working together?
Have at it! I want to hear from you-- and others want to hear from you, as well! Share your thoughts and experiences below!
And remember... the purpose of the Daily Discussion initiative is to interact, and however little or large your contribution might be, it does matter!
If you write an entire post as a response, remember to use the tag #dailydiscussion and include "Daily Discussion No. 4" as part of your title, then share a link to your post in the comment section!
(As usual, all text and images by the author, unless otherwise credited. This is original content, created expressly for Steemit)
Created at 171129 14:36 PDT
I think one of the biggest things to consider is something like 96% of Steemians don't even vote for a witness, know what the are, or why they should care. I recently did a very rudimentary post on it.
I Think the tech side of things needs to be understood by people here. Not saying we all need to be "experts" but at least understanding wtf is going on, how, & why.
"Quality content of a genuine intent" is what I have been saying since I started my Facebook group Steemit Dreamit.
Well, you're one of our "activists for common sense" around here... it's a fact that (for example) the topic of "the importance of witnesses" doesn't get nearly enough air time around here... there should be "boilerplate" posts running through most people's feeds almost hourly... but there aren't, because it's "boring." And yet? We all need to know how our community works.
Now thesteemster feels stupid but I watched a number of Youtube videos about Steemit and I don't remember hearing about a witness. Could you please tell me in a nutshell?
@thesteemster read this post I recently made.
https://steemit.com/community/@chelsea88/have-you-voted-for-a-witness-why-should-you-even-care
It is short. I also recommend a solid read through of the Steemit FAQ's =)
I fear that's exactly the environment that's developed here, or maybe it was there all along and it just took time for it to bubble to the surface.
Since I arrived here in May, I've come to recognize that there are cliques here. Both societal and Steemit based, the latter is off limits unless you have a buttload of SP.
The upside of that is that you're almost guaranteed great payouts if you have it.
The downside is that you'll have to work your ass off and be very lucky to get noticed if you don't.
All along, the mantra was, "Get paid for creating content."
Expectations have not been managed well.
And unless I've missed some announcements, I don't see any movement towards changing the things that need changing. Lots and lots of suggestions but no announcements leads me to believe this toy has been relegated to the bottom of the toybox.
Ooooh look, EOS and SMT's.
And you can easily enough end up working your ass off and NOT get noticed. The delegations make some sense to me IF there were given to the hardest workers and busiest manual curators. To me, that would be a totally appropriate way to delegate. But that's not how that happens.
Somewhere up front, there was some "marketing anxiety." That is, the FEAR that nobody would join the site UNLESS the "money card" was played immediately, up front. So many expectations were built around people posting elsewhere about Jeff Berwick's infamous $40,000 post... AS IF that was what Steemit was all about. Which is a bit like claiming you should go to work for Miscrosoft because Bill Gates made $100 million last year.
If the pitch had been "You have the possibility of earning rewards if you post quality content" rather than "Look! This guy made $40,000 for a single post!" we'd probably be having a different dialogue right now...
I think we are in the awkward teen years. Most people are used to a lot of moderation.
You and I have discussed the issue before of traffic and freedom on the site. As part of developing a culture, we are practicing learning how to make decisions with consenus.
It is very interesting to watch it play out.
Good analogy, yes.
Those teen years can be important... choices made lay the groundwork for whether we go on to be dropouts in a street gang or astrophysicists.
What will the consensus look like? Can we make most of the people mostly happy, most of the time? What will our objective be? How will we arrive at consensus?
We arrive at consensus in my opinion, by doing what we are doing. People need to get more comfortable with upvoting and downvoting and making sure they are using their influence via witness voting.
We fight, talk, listen, change views and trudge forward.
I am not sure I think that SteemIt or other social media sites on the blockchain will become competitive with Facebook. I am also not sure we have to in order to build a solid community.
I'm not sure we can ever become competitive with Facebook, either. And I'm not sure we want to, quite frankly. But we could become a strong venue for free thinkers and those looking for something more substantial than the "social soup" served up elsewhere.
Some of the old social blog sites I used to be on had 5 to maybe 30 million users. That would be a substantial community.
I still remember when I read the Steemit white paper. The thrill of finally having a place to blog that didn't rely on AdSense for payouts, built-in sustainability model, community building and saving my stuff on the blockchain! I'd written for too many sites where they shut down, payouts were never honored, and my stuff disappeared with them.
To this day I still have no expectations of earnings. Never have, Never will. I know that community building, by default, will bring greater earnings because it's all about keeping someone's attention. Frankly, when I started on Steemit, my comments earned more than my posts. One only has to look at my history to see that I spent MONTHS earning zero. And yet I stayed.
The well-being of Steemit will always be dependent on the community interaction. We build friendships and family here. Heck, I'm closer a lot of my Steemit friends than I am with family. And when I'm not here I think about the lot of you. I think it was the day after lauralemons committed suicide, my aunt died. I am still more upset and moved by the loss of Laura from my life. These connections are real and we harvest them through honest communication.
Well, I pretty much agree with everything you just said... I think you and I made our way here along very similar paths, with very similar experiences... including the fact that we have the ability to "see the writing on the wall" far sooner than most, thanks to 20 years experience in this field.
Back in February I started saying "Just because we're on the blockchain doesn't mean we're exempt from dealing with the greed and selfishness inherent in human nature." And I am still saying that... just a shame nobody wanted to listen then, just now.
I, too, kept creating content through months of Steem under 10 cents. And pitiful returns.
What you describe is precisely why I keep saying "Communities are built by PEOPLE, not by bots and code." I miss Laura, too... and a whole group of people who were regular contributors but stopped posting. I'm stubborn, though... so I plan to keep hanging out here unless it gets truly horrible.
Fantastically thoughtful post as always @denmarkguy. I really do agree with you that some of us need to stop looking at the short term gains and concern ourselves more with the longevity of the platform and I also agree with you that some of us, like myself, need to realise that this isn't just a content creation platform.
I've read the post by @stellabelle and some other related posts and I think it's a step in the right direction as you suggest. I look forward to seeing how it goes and what other initiatives spring up as a consequence.
Thanks again mate. Hope your day is going well.
Appreciate the input and encouraging words, Tony. One of my biggest concerns here-- perhaps because I have seen it a dozen times, elsewhere-- is that excessive focus on short term rewards will turn out akin to the fable of "Killing the goose that lays golden eggs."
Steemit is no good to ANYone if it turns itself into a cesspool of spam, bots, "programs" and other automation that makes the "next marginal new user" take one look at this and think "This is a complete effing waste of time!" and not sign up. If we reach that point, we're dead in the water...
I think this happens a lot, tbh.
This was exactly my thought process, and I have lots of free time.
Putting myself in the place of someone (90% of people), who's time is in demand, - to be totally honest - I wouldn't bother with steemit.
This is not an attractive platform for those just joining and wishing to make a long term 'living/ just a few dollars to help the budget', out of it.
If it promoted as such, (which it is), and doesn't deliver, it is bound to fail. People feel cheated.
And there in lies is the problem. It needs to be more attractive initially.
Thousand of potential new members are lost because of this, I think...
Totally agree with that.
The front end user interface needs a LOT of work to make it a feature rich environment that would make potential newcomers-- and not-so-newcomers-- think "Well, this is a cool site so I'll hang around anyways" even if they don't make more than a few cents. Right now... the allure isn't there. The "money first" marketing approach that has been used a lot has NOT helped, either... it sets up a sense of entitlement that leads to loss of members when the site doesn't live up to expectations.
The statistic you gave in an earlier post regarding the average number of comments per post is quite frightening, when you consider that the 2.2 number could be halved again if you discount the spam and automation.
I fear it's the ability to more or less print your own money here that will attract more users but it will be the wrong kind of users in my opinion in terms of trying to foster an actual 'community' on the platform. It felt like a real community of like minded men and women here when I first joined but that small group now seems to be being overshadowed by the growing number of mercenaries joining the site simply looking to increase their return.
I'm hoping that @stellabelle's plan is successful and the redistribution of voting power helps foster a better community atmosphere and leads to toher positive changes. If those with the 'power' now want the goose to keep laying the golden egg then they definitely need to start thinking long term or the goose will give up the ghost. :)
Thanks for the response mate. Hope you're having a great day.
While the rewards of using this platform are nice, I have found the communities around Steemit to be the reason I stay here. It took me a little while to settle in, to find my niche. I have cultivated some nice relationships with Steemians through the various Discord servers, networked with minnows, dolphins, and whales alike in @ShadowsPub's Pimp Your Post Thursday. That said, engagement and communities are essential to the survival of the Steemit platform. We can do that by encouraging others to make the switch from censorship to freedom of voice. Don't just upvote a post, comment on it. If you can take the time to upvote it, you can take the time to leave a sentence about it. Get the dialogue started. Comments lead to replies. Fact.
Thanks for the discussion, @denmarkguy.
Mo
Thanks for adding your voice, Mo! Taking a few extra seconds to interact is what "makes" this site, in many ways... even though engagement here has been declining for a few months, this is still one of the more interactive sites on the web, and we should continue to do whatever we can to encourage that.
If we have no engagement, no commitment, no good content and no curators, then the steemit platform stagnates, people leave for greener pastures and it eventually dies. We need to grow to stay viable. If people came to steemit as a jump off point to something else, then that is their dream to follow but that does not negate the need for the steemit platform to grow.
I agree with that. The challenge, then, lies in persuading those who are primarily short term thinkers to lengthen their horizons. Yes, it may be marvelous that you can "milk the system" of every penny today... but is that really the BEST choice if you end up with absolutely NOTHING, next week?
Hello my friend steemit 🤗
Very nice post 👍😚
Thank you.
great post I like this...really nice & mind touch blog😍😍
I have a hunch that all is not lost yet and that we still have a way out buddy. ¡Keep reading!
As for "Steemit, the social content front end of the Steem blockchain" and "Our Social Content ecosystem" Fortunately, my dear friend @denmarkguy. I suspect our mutual friend @tarazkp is onto something important here mate. Apparently, this would only take snatch away with a single collective kick the crutches of comfort on which the big guys above and the powers that be deafly rest upon and we are done. }:)
There is no possible way for something organic to not rot if we do not collectively strengthen it and sprinkle it constantly with pure and solid ETHICS in first place and all the time. :)
Hello. Thank you for encouraging discussions. Good questions and observations in your post.
I did not expect to get rich here. I joined a few days after my significant other joined. He was really excited about it at the start. I thought it would be nice to find some other people interested in the things I enjoy (nature, cooking, life in general, self-improvement and self-discovery). But the time issue is a huge one. I don't have much time to devote to making quality posts. I spend most of my time here trying to find people and topics that resonate with me. It is a little difficult for me to search for content - I feel like I'm sifting lots of sand trying to find grains of rice to nourish me. :)
However, I really enjoy the international aspect, and the range of interests people have is quite astonishing.
First of all I consider that the whole Steemit system is a baby, and as such it requires a lot of care, or else it can die without reaching adulthood. I imagine this in a couple of years when you see his childhood development on his way to adolescence.
In this sense, I think it is a little premature to worry about the lack of rain in summer, when we are sure that winter will inevitably come with a lot of rain.
However, I agree with you and your concern about the vote-selling bot and those who see only the economic sense of fast profits in Steemit and their desire to earn more are killing the golden egg hen. Although I am sure that Steemit and its cryptocurrencies Steem and SBD will continue to grow and consolidate, remaining for at least 10 years at the top of the charts.
Therefore what remains for us writers and readers, is to continue creating quality content and supporting votes with quality content. Of course, alert as you do now when something that can go wrong is observed on the horizon.
Quality content is not being promoted here. Sometimes I have written some long posts here and they get unnoticed. This is really a matter of concern.
Great flowers!!!
UpVote!
About the bots well steem should be a meritocracy not a pure money!! So I agree with you that something needs to be done!!
But in my opinion what will make this growth in the future are the 3rd party apps!!!
Indeed, there are different kinds of bots. I have nothing against the ones that gather information for their owners who then go out and curate manually... or at least semi-manually. And, of course, things like cheetah, steemcleaners, spaminator and so forth serve their purpose.
If you are "SP rich" but time poor, I can also see someone delegating SP to a real person who's an active curator... along the lines of @stellabelle's recent proposal. Anything else, though? I just want to remind everyone that this is a SOCIAL site, not a cash dispenser! Maybe that sounds a bit rough and blunt... but that seems pretty much to be what it boils down to.