I remember talking about this matter at Steemfest with you. big deal indeed. thank you for bringing it up. the burden is on us as individuals, at least in the US, and everyone should pay taxes on profits unless you are in a jurisdiction where you don't need to (e.g. "tax safe heaven").
In the US, you can use the same methodology used to account for stock gains. Hold more than a year, it's long term cap gains. Hold for less you pay short term cap gains. Trading one coin for another creates a taxable event. Keep records and give them to a CPA.
One of the major big picture things I post about is mass adoption for the technology and more generally the new business models it allows. If the pioneers do not pay attention to basic things such as paying taxes, we will have an uphill battle scaling. Such battle will be far more detrimental in the long run than doing the right from the start. For Steemit it is gaining market share on the internet, basically competing with Reddit, Medium, news site, Insta, etc. Most of these huge corporation pay little tax cause they had teams of tax attorneys behind them. Corporations make the money, can hire talent to optimize their corporate structure for the profit of the shareholders. Not problem there at all. Here, since the user is the one getting the revenue, it is up to the user to properly structure themselves. Absent a team of tax counsels, you have to pay taxes. If we go further down this path, one could argue that Steemit is better for the tax man than people using other sites. Thoughts on this anyone?
On the other hand, if content producers using Steemit pay taxes, uncle Sam will likely be happy and not interfere with the growth. remember that, anyone can query the public chain and see who got what and when.
Great topic..People would just move their money elsewhere. same thing happened with China and people move out to another country. Binance was a chinese company and now they are in Japan (with operations in several other countries).
this is the same with tax avoidance issues. you raise the tax somewhere, corporations would just move their assets elsewhere
I guess tax avoidance is an art... tax evasion is a crime. The question is whether you want to play that game. Particularly if you're acting as an individual rather than a company.
Ah, it's a philosophical distinction in the end.
Evasion is rooted in the intent to deceive, with a willful desire to circumvent the law, irrespective of the intent of the law. The evader cares not what the law says, but only that they not be caught.
Avoidance is based upon a careful analysis of the law, always with an intent to comply. The intent is to be legal, to use the provisions of the law in a clever but compliant manner. There is no deception, no willful desire to circumvent the intent of the law.
Unfortunately, the vagaries of language and the complexities of transactions leads to a fuzzy boundary between avoidance and evasion, where the distinction sometimes turns on intent.
Interesting comment! What's the difference to these coins? In order to get paid out in fiat you still need to be registered on an exchange! So the tax-man got you anyway... Correct me if I'm wrong!
You are correct but how can the government tax you on something they know nothing about?
At least here in the U.S. we are taxed on what we report. No report = no tax .
As far as getting paid:
-One could trade peer to peer. localbitcoins.com is one that comes to mind(no tax)
-Use a "crypto payment card" bitpay ,Uquid is another.
If you do a little digging you can find a few different ways besides using an exchange.
Tax evasion is tax evasion and comes woth severe consequences. It's no different to trying to evade tax using cash in hand.
Just as an aside privacy coins are not about avoid taxes. Hopefully they aren't perceived that way as the point of privacy coins is to be able to pick and choose who we share details of our transactions as we can do off-blockchain (to a certain extent).
Compliments of highimpactflix here on steemit on a reward if you can find the law where it says one must pay taxes. Pretty interesting. Yes, I pay my taxes, doesn't mean I agree. If I don't men with guns will come to my house and throw me in a cage until I do.........sad.
Well anything can happen !! We can only assume. What if people start transactions only in coins and no one ever takes out cash ever !! What if crypto currency becomes the only currency? I wonder sometimes what the world would be like without any taxes !! 🙆🏻♀️
I'd imagine the nature of the transactions will determine the applicable tax. I don't think that governments are going to abandon taxing people just people they are using crypto. But nice try!
Well... i think every well minded citizen ought to pay taxes.. its for the benefit of all..but is the government really using it for oir benefit or theirs
you just educated me on something i never knew @nanzo-scoop you say that you are a Tax Adviser or Financial Adviser..but i think you are gonna make a good one or career out of it.
thanks
It is not paying this exorbitant taxes that bothers me sometime but are we getting to see the value of the money we laboured for. Thanks for sharing this post
Thank you, I actually never thought about the tax side of things. I'll be more aware now when and do a bit of research. I Don't fancy getting a tax bill and end up owing thousands. Thanks for this video. followed and upvoted.
Im still learning how taxes work. I have no idea how Bitcoin made on signature campaigns would get reported for example, and if the taxes on that are different from the taxes of buying Bitcoin in an exchange and selling it. I also don't know if transactions between BTC and fiat back and forth or even between cryptos have a tax. Everyone says their own version of how things are. Financial advisors are clueless when it comes to Bitcoin. My logical conclusion is to keep holding it and not sell anything, and keep trying to improve your Bitcoin holdings for the future. Im scared that in the future there will be no money to pay for pensions for example, and BTC could be my savior from that, so im just keeping it and hoping it keeps going higher (as it should). I will bother with learning about taxes later, learning about BTC is time consuming enough. I have not done anything illegal to obtain my BTC so im not worried about that. I could prove if needed that I made them legally. You could show them for example that you posted here and got BTC, im not sure exactly how (maybe signing public addresses used to receive payments here for example). This is all too new and I don't want to be the first idiot that gets taken advantage of with their experiments in taxation so it's better to just hold it all for the time being and we'll see.
Well, actually, I am a tax professional, so I have been getting quite a few questions about the tax consequences of crypto transactions. The problem is that things are still in flux and unclear, in the US anyway.
I think they kind of like it that way, because TPTB can bully people into overpaying, just to try to protect themselves. That's a problem when they can adjust and change the rules as they go.
when you turn your ctypto into dollars and send them to a physical bank, you pay the transaction fee. There's your taxing. The government does not control that money if you can always transfer them abroad.
@thatanimesnob. Your statment seems to be right in a way. But if crypytos have come to stay. In some way it has to be regulated. That where accountability comes in. You have to answer to the taxman. No one likes the taxman talk less of paying taxes. I was reading someone else's comment on here that you could be tracked by the exchanges you use. That's very true. That's why reputable exchanges verify you before using their exchanges to save their own backs. Your details can also be handed over to the taxman.
Thank you for your educational post. I know that my son @exyle also recently wrote about the taxman. In the Netherlands, cryptocurrency must be declared on the tax return.
Can you now just keep your money in crypto and use one of the Credit cards like TenX to withdraw money?
After all, no one knows how much crypto you really have, obviously this would only work to a set price point you can just go out and start buying mansions and Lambo without the government asked where the hell did you get all that cash from without paying any tax on it.
you could claim it as gambling winning as they are tax-free in the UK is you wanted to be really sneaky about it you could use a TenX credit card to top up a gambling site like Bet365 and then withdraw the cash into your bank as winning, or use their bet365 debit card to withdraw the cash
You may get away with this on smaller amount, but you know what the government are like and you could face a hefty fine and even jail for tax evasion if they think you are on the fly
There's nothing wrong with paying taxes, it's part of being a contributing member of society and building a better future. What's wrong is making unfair tax rules against crypto. It needs to be done simple and straightforward and not with malicious intent to try and destroy it.
Coinbase does not belong in a country. How can you tax what is not regulated by a government? If someone turns crypto to fiat, then they can count as part of his property when being taxed.
"If there's money to be made, governments are going to make it." Man, did you hit it on the head there. lol Collecting taxes, waging war, and corruption, that's what governments are good at.
I've written a post on this on my blog here on Steemit. It's a tricky subject as you allude to.
The gist of my post is that the Governments appear to be taking a "wait and see" approach before formally setting out exact guidelines and policies with the only formal guidance in the UK so far being a broad "catch-all" statement made in 2014 with a "we'll look at each case on its own merits" type of approach. I suspect we'll see some more formal guidance later this year.
In the meantime, as you say "do not bury your head in the sand" on this subject as it may well come and bite in the not too distant future - especially as it's all recorded on the blockchain...
I totally agree with you. There are a lot of people who got into cryptos as some sort of tax haven and its not that (with the exception of monero from what I hear?). If they sell what they have they definitely need to pay taxes. I suppose that the only alternative is to hold what you have as unrealized gains and prolong having to pay but at some point they're going to be waiting.
Great topic, i can't understand this, the gov call investing in cryptos gambling, they call it a bubble, they say all this stuff about cryptos, but at the end of the day they want to put their hand on the cookie basket and take one of your cookies for themselves...
If my crypto investments ever amount to anything worthwhile i would rather go live 1 year in another country where cryptos are not taxable than to give money to the government, they don't even know where to invest or where to put their money into, well they know, it's mostly in their own pockets.
This is exactly what has been on my mind lately - especially since tax-filing time is approaching here in the US and especially since all we can hear here now is "Crypto, crypto, crypto!". It's almost like previously only a few people talked about it, and now it's definitely become a mainstream topic. I'm just kicking back and watching it all, learning while at it :).
@nanzo-scoop
I remember talking about this matter at Steemfest with you. big deal indeed. thank you for bringing it up. the burden is on us as individuals, at least in the US, and everyone should pay taxes on profits unless you are in a jurisdiction where you don't need to (e.g. "tax safe heaven").
In the US, you can use the same methodology used to account for stock gains. Hold more than a year, it's long term cap gains. Hold for less you pay short term cap gains. Trading one coin for another creates a taxable event. Keep records and give them to a CPA.
One of the major big picture things I post about is mass adoption for the technology and more generally the new business models it allows. If the pioneers do not pay attention to basic things such as paying taxes, we will have an uphill battle scaling. Such battle will be far more detrimental in the long run than doing the right from the start. For Steemit it is gaining market share on the internet, basically competing with Reddit, Medium, news site, Insta, etc. Most of these huge corporation pay little tax cause they had teams of tax attorneys behind them. Corporations make the money, can hire talent to optimize their corporate structure for the profit of the shareholders. Not problem there at all. Here, since the user is the one getting the revenue, it is up to the user to properly structure themselves. Absent a team of tax counsels, you have to pay taxes. If we go further down this path, one could argue that Steemit is better for the tax man than people using other sites. Thoughts on this anyone?
On the other hand, if content producers using Steemit pay taxes, uncle Sam will likely be happy and not interfere with the growth. remember that, anyone can query the public chain and see who got what and when.
Guys just pay your taxes don’t be stingy …😅👀✌🏼🛫
nobody want to think about taxes tony,, its scary , resteemed
Great topic..People would just move their money elsewhere. same thing happened with China and people move out to another country. Binance was a chinese company and now they are in Japan (with operations in several other countries).
this is the same with tax avoidance issues. you raise the tax somewhere, corporations would just move their assets elsewhere
I guess tax avoidance is an art... tax evasion is a crime. The question is whether you want to play that game. Particularly if you're acting as an individual rather than a company.
Ah, it's a philosophical distinction in the end.
Evasion is rooted in the intent to deceive, with a willful desire to circumvent the law, irrespective of the intent of the law. The evader cares not what the law says, but only that they not be caught.
Avoidance is based upon a careful analysis of the law, always with an intent to comply. The intent is to be legal, to use the provisions of the law in a clever but compliant manner. There is no deception, no willful desire to circumvent the intent of the law.
Unfortunately, the vagaries of language and the complexities of transactions leads to a fuzzy boundary between avoidance and evasion, where the distinction sometimes turns on intent.
Great post! Taxes are to be implemented this year in the US and is causing a lot of confusion already!
As taxes roll out I can see more people using Privacy coins (XMR.DASH,ZEC etc) to hide gains. <- Do you agree with this statement?
Interesting comment! What's the difference to these coins? In order to get paid out in fiat you still need to be registered on an exchange! So the tax-man got you anyway... Correct me if I'm wrong!
You are correct but how can the government tax you on something they know nothing about?
At least here in the U.S. we are taxed on what we report. No report = no tax .
As far as getting paid:
-One could trade peer to peer. localbitcoins.com is one that comes to mind(no tax)
-Use a "crypto payment card" bitpay ,Uquid is another.
If you do a little digging you can find a few different ways besides using an exchange.
Tax evasion is tax evasion and comes woth severe consequences. It's no different to trying to evade tax using cash in hand.
Just as an aside privacy coins are not about avoid taxes. Hopefully they aren't perceived that way as the point of privacy coins is to be able to pick and choose who we share details of our transactions as we can do off-blockchain (to a certain extent).
Compliments of highimpactflix here on steemit on a reward if you can find the law where it says one must pay taxes. Pretty interesting. Yes, I pay my taxes, doesn't mean I agree. If I don't men with guns will come to my house and throw me in a cage until I do.........sad.
Thank you for your very detailed answer.
I'm in no way encouraging tax evasion but I think with anything there will be misuse. It will be very interesting to see how everything unfolds.
"Privacy" is an endangered species.
Well anything can happen !! We can only assume. What if people start transactions only in coins and no one ever takes out cash ever !! What if crypto currency becomes the only currency? I wonder sometimes what the world would be like without any taxes !! 🙆🏻♀️
No one can catch anyone that way.
I like you, and the way your comments attract my eyes! Allow me to follow you, and please welcome to my blog!
THANks dear 😃
Always welcome!
I'd imagine the nature of the transactions will determine the applicable tax. I don't think that governments are going to abandon taxing people just people they are using crypto. But nice try!
They cant find it out whose money is going where. Isnt it ?thats what the concept of crypto is based on. I will always hope for the best 😃
Only 2 things are certain in this world. Death and Taxes
Well... i think every well minded citizen ought to pay taxes.. its for the benefit of all..but is the government really using it for oir benefit or theirs
you just educated me on something i never knew @nanzo-scoop you say that you are a Tax Adviser or Financial Adviser..but i think you are gonna make a good one or career out of it.
thanks
I hope not!
It is not paying this exorbitant taxes that bothers me sometime but are we getting to see the value of the money we laboured for. Thanks for sharing this post
Thank you, I actually never thought about the tax side of things. I'll be more aware now when and do a bit of research. I Don't fancy getting a tax bill and end up owing thousands. Thanks for this video. followed and upvoted.
THIS IS WHAT I REALLY WANT TO KNOW MORE ON AS WELL
Im still learning how taxes work. I have no idea how Bitcoin made on signature campaigns would get reported for example, and if the taxes on that are different from the taxes of buying Bitcoin in an exchange and selling it. I also don't know if transactions between BTC and fiat back and forth or even between cryptos have a tax. Everyone says their own version of how things are. Financial advisors are clueless when it comes to Bitcoin. My logical conclusion is to keep holding it and not sell anything, and keep trying to improve your Bitcoin holdings for the future. Im scared that in the future there will be no money to pay for pensions for example, and BTC could be my savior from that, so im just keeping it and hoping it keeps going higher (as it should). I will bother with learning about taxes later, learning about BTC is time consuming enough. I have not done anything illegal to obtain my BTC so im not worried about that. I could prove if needed that I made them legally. You could show them for example that you posted here and got BTC, im not sure exactly how (maybe signing public addresses used to receive payments here for example). This is all too new and I don't want to be the first idiot that gets taken advantage of with their experiments in taxation so it's better to just hold it all for the time being and we'll see.
Well, actually, I am a tax professional, so I have been getting quite a few questions about the tax consequences of crypto transactions. The problem is that things are still in flux and unclear, in the US anyway.
I think they kind of like it that way, because TPTB can bully people into overpaying, just to try to protect themselves. That's a problem when they can adjust and change the rules as they go.
when you turn your ctypto into dollars and send them to a physical bank, you pay the transaction fee. There's your taxing. The government does not control that money if you can always transfer them abroad.
Crypto are supposed to be non-regulated and non-centralized. Why would you pay taxes for something that is not controlled by governments?
@thatanimesnob. Your statment seems to be right in a way. But if crypytos have come to stay. In some way it has to be regulated. That where accountability comes in. You have to answer to the taxman. No one likes the taxman talk less of paying taxes. I was reading someone else's comment on here that you could be tracked by the exchanges you use. That's very true. That's why reputable exchanges verify you before using their exchanges to save their own backs. Your details can also be handed over to the taxman.
I heard about how the U.S. plans I taxing cryptos. Here is a link explaining more.
https://www.ethnews.com/tax-cut-bill-to-require-taxation-of-cryptocurrency-trades-in-us
Great post keep steemin!!!
Looks great!!! You are awesome @Nanzo-scoop my friend
good job, keep it up,thanks for sharing with us...
dear sir @nanzo-scoop
Thank you for your educational post. I know that my son @exyle also recently wrote about the taxman. In the Netherlands, cryptocurrency must be declared on the tax return.
Paying your tax at when due is a welcome development. Even in the bible Christ tells us to pay our tax.
Nice post...thanks for the insight!
I've been thinking about this issue lately @nanzo-scoop
I think the government will have to invent new rules to deal with this since it doesn't fall nicely under any current ones.
I made this meme to illustrate what's been on my mind :)
You want another example?
If FIAT has become dept, why do they tax negative numbers?
Awsome post and a good question
Can you now just keep your money in crypto and use one of the Credit cards like TenX to withdraw money?
After all, no one knows how much crypto you really have, obviously this would only work to a set price point you can just go out and start buying mansions and Lambo without the government asked where the hell did you get all that cash from without paying any tax on it.
you could claim it as gambling winning as they are tax-free in the UK is you wanted to be really sneaky about it you could use a TenX credit card to top up a gambling site like Bet365 and then withdraw the cash into your bank as winning, or use their bet365 debit card to withdraw the cash
You may get away with this on smaller amount, but you know what the government are like and you could face a hefty fine and even jail for tax evasion if they think you are on the fly
Great point man, more people should be talking about taxes
great post thanks for the sharing....dear sir @nanzo-scop
You post is really different and very informal.I saw your video.Thanks for sharing this @nanzo-scoop
100% upvote and resteem done sir @nanzo-scoop
There's nothing wrong with paying taxes, it's part of being a contributing member of society and building a better future. What's wrong is making unfair tax rules against crypto. It needs to be done simple and straightforward and not with malicious intent to try and destroy it.
Coinbase does not belong in a country. How can you tax what is not regulated by a government? If someone turns crypto to fiat, then they can count as part of his property when being taxed.
I agree with your all point that you notice. Thanks to you for sharing good article. HAPPY STEEM @nanzo-scoop
hola! I like your post! Thanks for it! Hope to see more of your works.i just upvoted your post hope u will do desame thank uhttps://steemit.com/altcoin/@praize50/katy-perry-showcases-her-crypto-claws
great post, i like tish post, thanks for sharing
Nice post:
Visit my video game play
https://steemit.com/dlive/@raynazuhra/2703e5f0-033f-11e8-a9a6-f9c43eebbad6
Coins mentioned in post:
Oke freenn
"If there's money to be made, governments are going to make it." Man, did you hit it on the head there. lol Collecting taxes, waging war, and corruption, that's what governments are good at.
A very good video. Thanks.
You have a new follower, btw.
Really have set me into thinking... Thanks for the post.
Good post friends.
I've written a post on this on my blog here on Steemit. It's a tricky subject as you allude to.
The gist of my post is that the Governments appear to be taking a "wait and see" approach before formally setting out exact guidelines and policies with the only formal guidance in the UK so far being a broad "catch-all" statement made in 2014 with a "we'll look at each case on its own merits" type of approach. I suspect we'll see some more formal guidance later this year.
In the meantime, as you say "do not bury your head in the sand" on this subject as it may well come and bite in the not too distant future - especially as it's all recorded on the blockchain...
Tax? What's a Tax? vOv
I totally agree with you. There are a lot of people who got into cryptos as some sort of tax haven and its not that (with the exception of monero from what I hear?). If they sell what they have they definitely need to pay taxes. I suppose that the only alternative is to hold what you have as unrealized gains and prolong having to pay but at some point they're going to be waiting.
If the government can fuck you they will.
Thank you for the knowledge brother! Always thumb up 👍
You open our eyes in a subject that everyone wants to avoid.
awesome vlog
Great topic, i can't understand this, the gov call investing in cryptos gambling, they call it a bubble, they say all this stuff about cryptos, but at the end of the day they want to put their hand on the cookie basket and take one of your cookies for themselves...
If my crypto investments ever amount to anything worthwhile i would rather go live 1 year in another country where cryptos are not taxable than to give money to the government, they don't even know where to invest or where to put their money into, well they know, it's mostly in their own pockets.
Woooww.. good post
This is exactly what has been on my mind lately - especially since tax-filing time is approaching here in the US and especially since all we can hear here now is "Crypto, crypto, crypto!". It's almost like previously only a few people talked about it, and now it's definitely become a mainstream topic. I'm just kicking back and watching it all, learning while at it :).
thanks for sharing!!👍
Nice post here. Thanks for sharing this post. Upvoted @nanzo-scoop