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6 years ago in #classical-music by cmp2020 (68)
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"Classical music is boring and repetitive and long."
Au contraire, while most classical compositions are longer than popular ones, they are certainly not repetitive, outside of Philip Glass and his boring repetitions. Even seemingly repetitive pieces change from repetition to repetition. Ravel's Bolero is an example of this. He alternates between two similar themes, with subtle changes in orchestration accompanying each change.
Rock and much folk music are built on repetition. Tchaikowsky had a challenge when composing the last movement of his Symphony #2, the "Little Russian," i.e., Ukrainian. He wanted to capture the feel of repetitive folk music without constant repetition. He solved this by repeating one theme, varying the orchestrations and interrupting with other themes.
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Yes, that is a point I often bring up with my friends who make the claim that classical music is repetitive. I also make the argument that forms such as Sonata Allegro were invented in order to avoid repetition in music. You bring up a good point about subtle changes in orchestration. Strategies used by Bach and his "peers" were ideas such as "Augmentation," "Diminution," and "Inversion" of themes. These ideas are very much demonstrated by his Inventions and are certainly demonstrated in all of his music (specifically fugues). Composers make as many attempts to avoid repetition as they possibly can. Thank you for the feedback!
I've seen mathematical work that suggests that classical music relies on partial predictivity. Schoenberg fails on this account, because of the arbitrariness of his tone rows. The sample I heard with the paper sounded like he had spent time playing high notes, so he had to throw in some low notes. He claimed that he was organizing music through time, but it all sounds unmelodic to me.
Apart from my earlier comment (via @classical-radio) that the concept of playing old music from past eras is an unusual phenomenon in history, I really think that we (the classical music community) have shot ourselves in the foot in the past century or so...
The concept of Classical Music was pitched as an elite, cultural thing. We placed the idea of high art above the idea of entertainment. The original intent of the music was as entertainment, and yet we put it up on a pedestal to viewed as art akin to a museum. The unspoken "rules" of the concert hall, where newcomers where humiliated for clapping in the "wrong" place was just downright hostile to those who were not in the clique.
More recently, after seeing the success of the pop and commercial music, you have the idea of "selling" classical music. So, you get packaged groups and soloists who are generally easy on the eye... despite the fact that music is supposed to engage the ear first! In fact, you now start to get music festival organisers who have no idea about music but will just pick out packages that have been put together by their promoter friends.
Then, as musicians, you see many (especially in orchestras) musicians who are just there for work. Their passion is gone... In addition, you see a spread of the "don't stick out, don't get fired" mentality which leads to brainless and uncommitted performances...
All of this translates to the idea of a hostile concert atmosphere where I think the audience can sense the lack of commitment and "realness".
I probably have more to add, but I'll stop ranting... Of course, this is all spoken in a general and stereotypical sense. Not every musican and group is like this, but there is a disturbing section of the community where this is unfortunately true....
PS: Thanks for the mention! and thanks for the your continued support of the @classical-radio account!
You have made a lot of great points in this comment. One which I had not considered is the business behind music. You are right that people may be selected based on more than talent due to the idea that records need to be sold. I have a feeling that this problem is going to go away as ideas like Steemit grow in the public's eye. Now there is a way to juke out the music industry and get our "product" straight to the public. So I have a feeling that we are both in the right place. I also feel like Steemit (or something like it) could solve the problem of musicians mindlessly looking for work. Steemit creates an incentive for creativity, and I feel like that will cause these people to be much more hopeful about the impact of their musical creativity. Anyway, thanks for the feedback! What you are doing with this community is incredible!
I would not have expected this statement, the world is more and more into dance music, going to club evenings and festivals. In the Netherlands, it almost seems the only thing late teens and early 20 year old are doing in the weekends. And to be honest, I know quite e few styles in Dance music that sounds much more repetitive than classical music. But yeh, on the other hand I also can understand the statement.
I always like to see music promoted at events where the people are. So what about bringing in a classical stage at some big dance festival. I've seen different styles of music being more and more accepted by the young people by doing so. People getting more and more lazy I think, but they are still susceptible to learn, but one need to bring it too them.
I have also noticed that the dance music played at homecoming is very much redundant. I am going to remake a point I just made in another response. Composers have developed methods in order to avoid repetition much more so than modern dance composers. I used the example of Sonata Allegro Form, which helps you by providing guidance for writing longer works without sounding too repetitive. I don't know if it is necessarily laziness that causes people to write repetitive music. I think it is a lack of knowledge in how to write a longer work and not sound redundant. However, I am sure that when classical was first starting out, composers were much more redundant. I feel like repetition is an issue that may be solved for other genres as they are given time to develop their own methods of avoiding repetition. Classical composers have centuries of knowledge and experience under their belt. Thank you for the feedback!
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I agree. Avante-garde classical is very esoteric and unreachable by your typical audience today.
Another point to consider is the lack of audience education, for lack of a better term. Maybe this falls under your first point about time, but I’ve found, through my years of being a gigging musician, as well as during my time performing in classical groups at college, that by and large, people don’t understand or support the etiquette today, that they once did. There’s less appreciation, almost, as if music has become so cheap (through ipods, movies, TV, and radio), that the value has decreased. It’s become so easy to obtain music, there is less and less regard for its beauty and the skill of those who create it.
I was walking into my local Walmart a couple weeks back and had the privilege of listening to a church school orchestra performing to raise funds for a summer string camp. I was the only one who stopped, the only one who applauded (and one of the few who donated). Granted busking is a different kettle of fish from the concert hall, but the point remains: everyone was so busy on their phones, listening to their own ipod, and arguing with one another to even pause and appreciate. It’s not limited to there, either; I’ve played venues where I had to compete with the big sports game (“we won’t turn off the game,” “turn down your sound, the game is on”) and I’ve played in concert halls (happened during my college days) where people not only forget to turn off their cell phones, but proceed to carry on a LOUD conversation for the duration of the concert!
(On a side note, I am glad your area maintains music funding, where I live, music education funding and related arts programs are being cut left and right.)
It breaks my heart, because we are seeing a huge epidemic now in our society of suicide, depression, and anxiety disorders, and I feel like they’re related. We’re not living from the heart, we’re shutting ourselves off from beauty, we’re forgetting we’re human... and only the arts (music, art, literature, theater, dance) can show us the way back home.
You bring up some excellent points in your comment. Throughout my high school experience, I have noticed that there is a large lack of appreciation for music in general. When the marching band performs during our Friday night football games, I have noticed that the student section just talks over us. I once heard them blast an air horn during a girl's solo. The students also make noises at the pep rally during the national anthem to sound like cymbals (to be fair though, they are listening). I agree with you that art is one of the best ways to express humanity. Maybe society needs to teach values that emphasize an appreciation for art as well as an appreciation for life. Thank you for your feedback!
I have no real idea about music much less classical music......... but I have had this image or a perception in my mind that classical music is meant for live performances which perhaps decreases it's reach.
Then there is this another perception of mine. One that indicates a certain hint of elitism in this art. I haven't really ever shared these perceptions with anybody but I found that they are both mentioned in your post. In a different wording though.
Thank you! I am glad to know that my ideas are similar to yours. It is never too late to learn about something new!
10 Simple rules for learning to enjoy classical music ; -)
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The older I get the more I enjoy classical music. Before I started to listen to it regularily I actually had to tear down some of the walls you mentioned. I felt old and weired listening to classical music in a world full of very catchy pop songs like "Shut up" by the Black Eyed Peas for example.
Now I really like it, I especially like organ music and choirs.
Did you by any chance hear about that modern music does not have any real harmonies anymore but classical music does? I got this theory by a former DJ. He claims, that in modern music (pop, rock, jazz etc.) the harmony can not be singeled out anymore, because the rhythm of the bass is layered on it. He says, the songs thereby do not have an inherent logic anymore, we are not guided through it in a logical but emotional way. Well, I don't know, if this is true, but many composers like Bach wrote very "logical" songs, I heard. Anyway, I also think that children nowadays could profit from listening to classical music. In my view it sharpenes the mind a lot. I always felt very stimulated by it.
PS I: When I am back on my PC I'll send you a link with the source of the thesis I was talking about. It's in German though.
PS II: Here's the link to the source of the thesis:
https://youtu.be/e2xUiawGGoQ?t=219This is definitely something that needs to be addressed, although it has to be said that idea of playing music from the past is a bit of a more modern phenomenon...
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Hello @cmp2020, thank you for sharing this creative work! We just stopped by to say that you've been upvoted by the @creativecrypto magazine. The Creative Crypto is all about art on the blockchain and learning from creatives like you. Looking forward to crossing paths again soon. Steem on!
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