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There are several examples within the Old Testament where different people saw God. Here are just a few examples.
Jesus did not just show up at His birth. When Jesus walked on this earth, he told the disciples that He proceeded from God, and that he would return to God. (John 8:42-47)
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
_Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Pronounce: ad-o-noy'
Strong: H136
Orig: am emphatic form of 113; the Lord (used as a proper name of God only):--(my) Lord. H113
Use: TWOT-27b Noun Masculine
Grk Strong: G1203 G2233 G2316 G2316 G2962 G2962
- my lord, lord
1a) of men
1b) of God - Lord-title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence
DefinitionLink
The chapter where the above verse is recorded goes on to speak about Judgment. Sodom and Gomorrah were going to be judged. Sin had waxed worse and worse in those places making them completely corrupt.
"The Lord, (Adona) as shown above,) asked Sarah if there was there was anything too hard for Him. (In regards to Sarah having a son (Isaac.)
For comparison, let's look at Luke 1 and what the angel of the Lord said to Mary.
Luke 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
The bible makes a distinction when Adona is speaking, and if an angel is speaking the bible reference the angel, and if it is a man speaking, the bible makes reference to the man. Certain religious sects believe that Jesus was an angel. That isn't true at all. Again, the bible makes the distinctions itself.
The chapter goes on to describe the "Lord," (Adona) telling Abraham that Sodom and Gommorah will be destroyed, and Abraham enterceeds by asking repeatedly if God will spare Sodom and Gommorah if righteous people are found there.
When the world was flooded during the time of Noah God said this:
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.Genesis 6:5
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Genesis 18:20-21
There is another place where the bible tells us that "The Lord, came down to see." It's recorded in Genesis 11:5, and it is in regard to the "Tower of Babel."
The "Lord," (Adona) used the same type of Language.
Let's go and look at the words that God spoke when Aaron and Miriam spoke against Moses.
Numbers 12:2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.
The word, "LORD," in this passage means" 'yeh-ho-vaw'.
Definitionfromtheverse
And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
Numbers And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
Numbers With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
Numbers 12:4-8
God said that HE spoke to Moses mouth to mouth, and the Similitude of the Lord shall he behold.
Other versions such as the NLT use the words, "face to face," instead of, "mouth to mouth."
The word "similitude," in the above passage means.
- form, image, likeness, representation, semblance
The word, "Similtude," is mentioned 19 times in the bible. Some of the references are listed below for comparison.
Mentioned | In Reference to |
---|---|
Numbers 12:8 | Moses |
Deuteronomy 4:12-25 (5 times) | Moses |
Deuteronomy 5:8 | One of the Ten Commadments |
2 Chronicles 4:3 | Solomon's Temple |
Job 4:16 | Job's friend Speaking of God about God |
Deuteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
A graven image is an idol made by men, such a "Dagon," (The false god of the Philistines.)
When the refernces were made to "similitude," in the two accounts with Moses and Abraham, God made the statement.
He did not use the word, "Idolatry," in either case, instead, like in the case of Moses He said, "In MY similitude."
Jesus did not just show up in the New Testament, He's written of all the way through the bible, from beginning to end:
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
One last example, Jacob wresled with God.
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
"God also gave Jacob a new name, ISRAEL."
There are several accounts where God gives people new names, from Solomon, "Jedediah" in 2 Sam 12:25.
God changed "Abrams" name to "Abraham," and "Sarai," to Sarah. God changed "Saul's" name to "Paul," in the NT.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The word, "Simililtude" means: resemblance, similarity, likeness, sameness.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
The very next chapter:
Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Hebrews 2:1-7
I added links to the direct definitions from Strong's Concordance, so anyone who reads this can see for themselves.
The examples above are just few.
June 30-2017
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Amen! Jesus is there throughout the Old Testament! God had revealed to the Jews that the world was waiting for a Messiah and we see their knowledge of that too. Sadly we know that most of the Jews didn't recognize Him when He came, just as most of the Gentiles didn't either, but we know as Paul tells us that this was so that Gentiles could be grafted into the tree and have a relationship with God too.
Great Post!!
The language of scripture is Figurative, Symbolic and Literal. The Figurative is explained by the context, the Symbolical either in the context or somewhere else in the Scriptures, and the rest should be taken literally. Its all about rightly dividing the Word.
Blessings to you!!
Thank you sir. It can't be one of the other, so we have to examine all of the scriptures without question, and prayerfully seek it out in Christ.
Thank you once again for a wonderful post, got some life lessons as usual.
Thank you bigbear.
No man has seen God at any time.
The Old Testament authors knew absolutely that God is one. That is the foundation of their faith. You have to better understand what the Word is to make sense of it all.
You are right though, Jesus didn't just show up..God chose him before all time to be our Savior. He is the long awaited Messiah.
Jesus is God, so is the Holy Ghost.
We have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost - the Trinity.
John 1:1 is merely one verse that supports this. Genesis 1:26 is another - there are many more.
Jesus is mentioned in every book of the bible. He is in every OT book.
This is said no where in the Bible. Jesus continually confirmed that he was the Son and never God. There is a clear distinction throughout the Bible. The Trinity is a man made tradition. John 1:1 does not support a Trinity because John didn't believe in a trinity. John is speaking of the Word, God's Word.
Genesis 1:26 also does not even hint at a Trinity. God is speaking to the Holy Angels who were present at the Creation and are also made in his image.
To make God three is blasphemy. The pagan gods are three. My God is one.
We beleive in one God too. Father Son and the Holy spirit they are one.
In Rev the lamb is being worshiped, you might say thats not the highest form of worship. However there every creation has bowed down b4 him to worship.God does not share his glory with anyone and yet here Jesus is worshiped.
I am not looking for an argument. Simple truth brother
Question: What was the Son's name BEFORE He manifested in the flesh?
Consider this:
Revelation 5:
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
All of creation praised the him that sitteth upon the throne(God) and the Lamb(Christ). There is a clear distinction between the two and no mention of a third person. Note in verse 12 the Lamb was worthy to RECIEVE power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. If he were God, would not have to receive wisdom, or strength, or power. Also note in verse 14 the elders fell down and worshipped God alone.
You said that God doesn't share his glory with anyone but that is not Scriptural:
John 17:
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
God had given glory to Jesus and Jesus shares that glory with us.
This is the simple truth..no mystery, no confusion. Take a moment to think about it all.
Will make another post on this subject:)
Are you a Oneness Pentecostal?
No. I am a Bible believing Christian. I trust the Bible and hold that God is the Father, Jesus is His Son, the Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the Father's power and presence(to put it simply).
The Son, in the flesh, was NOT to be worshiped as God, yet He was God. If that makes any sense. By worshiping the image of Jesus, we are committing the sin of putting someone before Yah, who, when He came in human form, was ALSO the messiah. Albeit, MAN is NEVER to be worshiped. Nobody should worship the man-body that YHWH at one point manifested in. Instead, man should worship YHWH. Hope that made sense.
pretradition, it is the "Similtude." Moses saw God directly. Remember, he was put in the cleft of a rock, and saw the back of God.
Again it says this:
Exodus 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
The bible describes what they saw. The verses speak for themselves.
I think this also ties into "natural/carnal and Spiritual."
Moses didn't see God directly, He saw the back of God. "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."
I'm trying to relate to what you are saying so I'm sorry if I am having trouble following you. So you believe they saw God, but they didn't really see God?
The definitions are there pretradition.
I'm saying what the verses say. Look at the definitions.
There are links with each one to the actual verse with the actual definitions.
I'm saying that Jesus didn't just show up in the NT, and I'm saying that He is the one seated on the throne in the book of Revelation and in Isaiah. Who is "Adona," and who is "Yeh-ho-vaw?"
Let's not debate this.
I'm sorry, I was just trying to understand your point of view and interpretation.
The bible made us to understand that no man has seen God at any time,the only begotten son who is at the father's side is the one who has explained him ....
John 1:18.
Good post. I like that you go into depth here regarding the fact that the Messiah and Yah of the old testament are the same deity. Both the Bible and the Messiah Himself were intentionally coy about this, but constantly hinted at this.