I was just chatting with some fellow Steemians on Twitter when it occurred to me that it is odd, we were talking there instead of here. Another funny thing is I don't even know if any of us follow each other here.
I spend a lot of time working on Steem, Talking about Steem, planing about Steem, listening to shows about Steem... And I hang out with a lot of others who are pretty dedicated too.
Why is it we communicate on Twitter, Discord, steem.chat and elsewhere more often and more freely than on Steem? Another interesting thing, I don't engage that much on the blockchain with the same people who I spend the most time with on discord. I think it is because I post more than most of the people who I talk to on Discord. I realize that instant chat is nice but why Twitter.
Two things come to mind when I consider my own reasons for saying things in other places than on Steem.
- Knowing I'm putting something on the blockchain feels more important like I shouldn't waste space for no reason. (sometimes very little reason, but not total fluff.)
- We get mad at people who are reward farming.
We've created a strange dynamic, where we tell people to engage and make friends... However, we limit their RCs and discourage them from testing out different types of posts for fear of disapproval or flags.
I know why we do it and I am not even saying it's bad. I just thought it seemed a little interesting.
Stop by SteemChat and say hi! lol https://discord.gg/8VAwPH
@whatsup,
With Sinhala and Tamil new year time I am really busy with my working stuffs! Hope to meet you and others at your discord!
Cheers~
Yes, it would be good to see you my friend. :)
Lol. I think i probably covered this phenomena at least in 1/5 of my posts.
Why do people express themselves more freely anywhere else then on STEEM?
When i first came here i was amazed how unnaturally friendly almost everyone was. lol
The answer to that question is:
Some call it: "Social intelligence." I call it: "Being a soulless conformist."
Drama token please. hahaha
In the end you get exactly that behaviour you are constantly rewarding.
The first and the main rule in growing a child or large scale social interaction. In big social media you end up by high frequency shit-posting, in steem you end up with 110% whale conformizm.
I have been saying THIS.
Steem = communism because the community is paying for upvotes. Communism always leads to corruption. Don't hate the player, hate the game. People will always abuse a system if it's not 100% secure.
^ bullshit
Arguments?
!dramatoken
what’s this?
I think you really deserve the token! :-D haha
But jokes aside, I like your point here. It's definitely true that with our content we try to impress a specific target group. So there's a lot of self-marketing in it, and of course a lot of lobbying. Money definitely changes the game, so that may be another factor why we're not really 100% free here.
Thought-provoking comment, thank you! I'll definitely rack my brains over it a bit longer..:-)
Let me, without invitation, expand on my thoughts. haha. We are just very early in the game. We are so early that we find ourselves on a content creation platform where the large majority of users that are extremely highly rewarded for their content are godawful based on any parameter you can think of. lol I know who those people are, you know who they are. So i wont mention them... Mostly because its social suicide, thus proving my initial point through a personal example. haha
I cant really blame the community though, it is as it is, and while i do think it will change over time as we grow, its still important to point out those things.
Most of the issues stem from bad distribution and over-reliance on a small number of SP holders. Im in the top 3000 biggest accounts on STEEM. My upvote is worth 10 cents which is nothing... Now consider that there are maybe a handful of accounts that can give you something that is worth your time investment in STEEM...
What happens is pretty obvious. Folks adjust to expectations and youre left with a bunch of conformists and favor chasers... Since steem uses the "marine" parallel for its account sizes id go with this representation..
@lordbutterfly the fact that you don't even dare to mention them says a lot about this communist regime.
@lordbutterfly
"Im in the top 3000 biggest accounts on STEEM."
BTW is there some kind of tool to check that out? I'm wondering now what "rank" i have.
https://steemitboard.com/ranking/?p=106&s=vests&hl=lordbutterfly
Just type your name in on top.
Haha thanks.
I'm in top 5500 :)
You've got
DRAMA!To view or trade
DRAMAgo to steem-engine.com.Nice one, @whatsup! That's a thought-provoking topic. I can only say that my behavior is exactly like yours: I spend much time talking about Steem, but not on Steem.
According to @penguinpablo the level of engagement has been pretty stagnant, being the average around 2.5 comments per post for over half a year now. If you think about our level of interaction on Discord that's basically nothing.
I think there's three things that have an influence on it:
These are just three that have driven people away from the blockchain. It's a shame!
IMO only by fixing point no. 1 you'd be able to change things. It's as you've said very often in our conversations:
Damn, this has become a super long comment. Sorry, haha! As I said: thought-provoking topic!! :-D
Loved & resteemed.
Have a good one @whatsup :-)
Excellent points Marly... you could have almost made a post out of it! :)
Agreed, we have to give incentives.
Thank you @whatsup!
Hehe, that's true. Sometimes you start talking and don't know where you'll be ending up :-)
it is odd.
I spend a few minutes each day with a post.
Spend some time replying, to other comments, and commenting on posts.
Then, head to discord...
I should make a habit out of more time on here.
I find it is a huge benefit, to having created relationships on Steem.
most of the close and serious relationships are started on steemit (the chain), and strengthened on Discord.
I agree! Except you. I met you on discord!
This is something I've been thinking about for a while and I think that some of what you have said is spot on, @whatsup. Specifically:
A rage that is not misplaced I think. However, engaging here - which is not instant - is also garnering rewards. So, perhaps it's a balance between instant gratification (and my erudite friend @quillfire will wax lyrical about this) and reward.
BOOM!
I do find, though, that in addition to the realtime chats on Discord - more so than on Twitter - one does say/have discussions that one wouldn't necessarily have on the more "public" blockchain.
My 2c worth...
Fiona
@fionasfavourites & @whatsup,
What can I say ... I MASSIVELY engage on Steemit ... far more than all the other social medias/Discord combined. And, that engagement is the key to not only the relationships I've fostered, but also to my "Brand."
Check out the comments section on ANY of my posts ... and remember, I've only got a $0.02 upvote when my VP is 100% charged. People are not coming for the money. Now check out my comments and replies on other people's posts ... and check out their wallets. I comment on what I find legitimately interesting, not on what is most potentially lucrative. Indeed, read the comment-reply thread on this still active post:
https://steemit.com/share2steem/@simplymike/simplymike-1554573503973-quote-of-the-day---this-is-me
This reality, obvious to everyone, has resulted in ferocious loyalties and reciprocal engagement.
On my Steemversary, I launched a "QuillFire Roast or Toast" Contest.
https://steemit.com/powerhousecreatives/@quillfire/the-quillfire-roast-or-toast-celebrating-quill-s-steemit-birthday-massive-sbi-prizes-com-47
There was not one real Roast. Every single one of the entries, despite a huge effort on my part to provoke people into a Roast, ended up doing a 'Toasty Roast' or a 'Roasty Toast.' I couldn't even pay people to take a head shot. The bonds that have been created between us are simply ... unbelievable. There is a dynamic on Steemit that exists nowhere else: A shared adversity and shared fate that results in a connection similar to that experienced by soldiers: A Band of Brothers.
This, despite the Whale-orchestrated cheating that has destroyed curation and the concept that content ought to be compensated commensurate with its quality.
If the "Reality of Steemit" were to match the "Theory of Steemit," the blockchain would experience explosive growth almost overnight.
Quill
I concur, @quillfire, in addition to my previous comments. Like you, I engage on Steemit and find it odd that a post like this (https://partiko.app/@fionasfavourites/universal-basic-unit-a-south-african-blockchain-project-for-universal-benefit), written to generate discussion on something that I would have thought was "on topic" and which has much discussion in the comments has earned zip by comparison with the snaps posted via #share2steem like this one https://partiko.app/@fionasfavourites/fionasfavourites-1554494782106-weekend-work on which there were few, if any comments.
So yes, you are spot on:
Which is why communities, themes and contests are so much a feature of these communities.
What I had hoped you would weigh in on are the issues of the effect of positive comments, downvote bots with their rude and often crude remarks, not to mention the bullies that indulge in ad hominems. It is exactly this behaviour that precludes people like me from weighing in on certain issues.
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PS I wrote this comment before I had seen your additional comment. Very interesting potential development :D
Well done and I will check it out. What you are saying makes perfect sense to me though.
I also engage a lot on Steem, and also feel I have a great following of real people!
@whatsup,
Thanks.
BTW, I've been mulling over this dramatoken idea of yours. It actually has the potential to create some very interesting dynamics (I own an advertising agency). Is there a White Paper, or something similar, articulating your intentions and the token's design specifications?
Cryptocurrencies aren't about computer code, they're about genetic code ... and your idea taps into a number of very primal drives.
Quill
https://hackmd.io/EaVtPyNwTi6BoxpNnhLXJA
It's a view document that many devs use.
The token supply is limited 20k annually during the bootstrap phase. we have an very undeveloped plan for an app. And we plan to play off the idea everyone on the Internet knows what drama is. It is our goal to give it a name and a face with dRAMA.
Yep, toys, tee shirts and twitter tokens could be a phase 3 goal.
@whatsup,
Very interesting. 10 Drama to call, great idea. It creates an army of committed Curators while decreasing the percentage of the Money Supply in Circulation. And, a LOT of 'opinionated people' would want to possess the Power to Call as a means of sticking it to one another ...
"You're a Diva." !dramatoken
"No, you are." !dramatoken
The Social Justice Warriors, with all their crying and caterwauling (about everything), would be !dramatokened to death.
.
.
I also love the idea about creating a list of DRAMA'd posts (perhaps a bonus for being crowned the Grand Diva). Such a list is an evening's worth of entertainment ... and an invitation to engage. :-)
The big payoff, for the token ... but also STEEM/Steemit ... is it's use off-blockchain: On FaceBook; Twitter; YouTube; etc. This is a GREAT (novel, cheap and effective) way to make STEEM/Steemit Top of Mind and draw in new users. It creates good-natured curiosity and a desire to claim one's winnings ... which would require a STEEM/Steemit account. Being crowned Grand Diva would itself be newsworthy ... and semantically important (positively or negatively).
This is one of the best blockchain development ideas, in general, I've seen in 16 months ... and certainly the best I've seen respecting marketing. If the Whales have an IQ of 2 between them, they will line up to support this project. This has the potential to make STEEM/Steemit a "Universal Commentator" on all other social media platforms.
I will go check to see how many DRAMAs I have earned ... I want 10. I'm toying with writing a poem ... to earn some more. :-)
Very nice job, WhatsUp.
Quill
I do know and am fine with it being under-estimated right now, as I am working on several other parts of the plan. He needs some polish and so does my plan.
He has performed very well in his opening debute
Totally agree
I think there should be easy more idle chatter oh Steemit. It is that money thing though, people get antsy.
I agree, more humour as well. Steem is ultimately very dry and serious, a bit dull even.
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Oh yes, totally agree. Way too many people taking themselves and the stuff they post too seriously!!
Yeah... I feel that. I wish this could just be a regular social media site... everthing is about the money or the actual site. You dont see people on facebook posting about facebook all day.
Even the steem chat inevitably is about the money. Some posts find favour, rewards wise if they talk about steem so lots of people try and jump on that crazy bandwagon. I don't mind so much when written by someone who knows what they are talking about but over time I have saw a lot of misinformation out there
Steem is the one thing EVERYONE here has in common.
We have different goals, different lives, different educations, etc...
But in one way or another we all care about Steem.
That be true, yes indeed. But I wager we all breathe air too and I don't see that many discussions on that :Op
one of the features that Medium has on their interface is the ability to not only highlight parts of a post but to comment on that highlighted text.
Two things I like about that is that I find I'll comment more as I highlight items that 'speak' to me and as a writer, I get to see what resonates with people.
Having said that, the level of engagement on posts is stronger here than over there from what I've seen
That's an interesting point about the placement of the comments.
Also, I would have thought Medium had a higher level of engagement.
it's been interesting to note the differences and similarities between the two platforms.
RC can be an impediment indeed. I have a new account for my actifit activity, started with 3 SP, I'm at 15 SP now which is enough for posting once a day and one comment.
On the other hand there are people here using Steemit to chat about their daily routine and family life.
I stick to the topic and use other platforms for chit-chatting.
I've wondered that also... however I've always felt that one of the good things about the Steem platform is that ancillary conversations happen elsewhere, like on Discord (or Twitter), while the feed is restricted to posts, but then the comments on post allow for contextual conversations to happen there.
Do we really need a 'chat' to be on the blockchain? I'd say no, given the nature of what blockchain is.
Strange how we never had an in-house chat app though... I know Steem-chat, but never used it TBH. Discord seems easier to use, unless it's my imagination.
Partiko has chat
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Is that on iPhone now too?? And group chat? Until it beats Discord... hah! 😘💜
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Touche, it is not on iOS, only droid, and only one on one secretive sinister steem plans can be laid out. What fun is that haha?
Posted using Partiko Android
It was always going to be... We will have private messages, we will have chats..
We still don't.
For me, the other channels are more 'chatty' in nature as well. It is mostly due to their apps (instead of webpages) which are much better suited to a quick exchange. I know there are apps like esteem, but I'm not keen to install low install base apps on my phone!
Maybe it's partly that feel everything here needs to have 'value'. I do votes on a lot of comments, but if a thread goes too deep I may stop voting on it. There have been attempts at chat rooms on Steem. Not sure if they are still going
Yeah, the value factor does limit engagement.
I agree completely. Most people who have been on steem for two years plus like us have built up a fair amount of followers and auto votes. I feel super guilty if I don’t post this polished and perfect post. I want to have fun on Steemit - sometimes just share a meme or a little quote, but nary the day I do so on steem, to be called a SHIT POSTER, REWARD POOL RAPIST! Lol it’s probably all in my head but I’m glad I have Twitter and discord to share these things with my Steem homies! 💪💓
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You have? Oh, Bugger...
Yes, we have. Like you I spent a lot of time arguing and trying to make others see it my way, before I decided maybe I should also consider seeing it differently.
Don't worry cricket...
I certainly see things differently then when I signed up here.
I won't be arguing much in these parts- I see things very clearly now.
It's now more of an opportunity for me.
(I'm more worried about getting my hair cut, than my popularity on steemit. Not sure where the crickets come into it, though...)
:) A play on don't worry grasshopper. By the way I love your video spoofs and stories. I think they were just starting to get some attention.
I need to be in 'not fucked off with steemit' mood, to do them justice.
Now I've started doing my other stuff off steemit, and writing away, I'm in a better mood (and making my $15 a day target from crypto)
I enjoy doing 'em, but they are/can be, very time consuming.
I have one on the back burner - and you're in it!
Haha! I know, sometimes I want to "Tell People" something, but I can't... Even if I decline rewards, my followers will lose a vote.
It feels rude.
Discord sucks. It's centralized and very invasive. It takes forever to start.
Okay.
In my experience posts only get flagged (mostly) when they are bid botted to trending with no unique content in post.
Have we started to flag usual blah blah posts as well ?
No, I think you are right, but new users don't always know this.
Baptism by fire... let's do it like Spartans :)
Most people believe that steemit is just to post but to me no it is a place to relate with positive minded people but the RC has created a lot of hindrance to many steemians.
It has occur to me also but am gradually getting out of it.
There is a Dapp that allow direct messages.
Yes, the new version of @partiko.android gives room for direct messages but it is mainly for those that are using the app.
But come to think of it steemit is fun and am glad to be part of this great family.
Just getting to know about stemchat but I will like to know more about it.
A²¹
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I think that the Hivemind and communities deployment for front ends could bring the opportunity for more engagements on chain as long as it is developed. I have always wondered the same as engaging actively on chain will only raise awareness to the ecosystem.
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YEah, I limit my time on Discord. I know people will say you build relationships, connections etc..etc.. But it is a big time suck, imho
I literally JUST wrote about this(sort of/mostly) and I do think it's bad. Busy modified their UX to feel more like a social network(the whole short post thing) and I think that's great, but there's still a negative stigma around the equivalent of a status update or tweet which I think is a net negative. I hope we can just get over that.
Haha, yeah... the balance between bloat and engagement. It's weird.
You're right. It somehow feels more meaningful to put stuff on the blockchain as resources there are limited (Twitter in a way has limited resources, too, but we don't care).
I think it circles back to the discussion about downvotes. Downvoting someone on Steem is punishment, whereas downvoting stuff on YouTube or Reddit is just expressing your opinion and curation. Most users (as seen on Twitter) don't actually need monetary rewards to use a thing - why else would everyone use Twitter? Therefore, we should focus on creating value within our ecosystem that's independent from the rewards. The rewards will come as soon as there's enough value for participants. This would mean that people can get downvotes without feeling too bad about them - they impact them in a similar way like they do on the platforms they.
(On a different note, Facebook and Twitter don't even have downvotes, so maybe we could also just get rid of the entirely?)
Would it make sense to run a decentralized Twitter on top of Steem? Would you use that instead of old-school Twitter?
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It is only tools around steem blockchain nothing more or less!
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Hi, @whatsup!
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I 100% agree!I think part of the issue is the cost for posting even small/short comments on Steem makes it unattractive for long conversations to be carried on for those that aren’t whales or dolphins with large RC pools to draw from. I’ve wondered before it a Twitter style system could be created on the Steem blockchain. A network where you are character limited, like Twitter or Gab, where conversations are short, sweet, and straight to the point. The issue is that the RC cost to make even a small post like that would be very prohibitive for even someone like me. At full charge with my 21SP, I could maybe post 10 “Sweets” in one day, and fewer if I plan on commenting on other’s posts, then I’d have to wait at least another day for my RC to recharge to post or comment again.
I wish that RC cost was based on the size of the post you make, as that way a functional chat service could really become possible on the Steem blockchain. Now granted, I understand it’d have to be made in a way that prevents post/reward farming, I get that. But it would also really open the Steem blockchain to be used for more for messaging and “Sweeting” than is currently possible. It might also break that stigma many have about feeling that anything posted on the Steem blockchain needs to be “special” or “important” to justify posting.
Congratulations @whatsup!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
I like this line of thought! Check this out @Nathanmars. Wu has been one of my mentors and is a brilliant lady. Definitely NOT a scammer.