There has been lots of discussion around censorship recently for a couple of reasons.
SteemIt, Inc.'s decision to block the supposed darknetlord's posts from showing on SteemIt.com and also due to crazy flag throwing by those who wish to control others' thoughts and words via flags.
These situations have helped me define what censorship resistant means in terms of Steem.
We already have many front ends and they all may decide to do different things. So, it is important to understand there is no push for "anything goes" at the front end level. Each Dapp will have to decide on their own social standards regarding what their UI will allow and show on their App. Some Apps may decide to limit some forms of posts or accounts while others may choose to display everything. I guess we will have to take that into consideration as we invest in and or use the apps.
On the blockchain level the situation with the hacker situation is actually a great example of proof of concept. Their posts were removed from a front end, but are still clearly on the blockchain. This shows the content was resistant to censorship as promised.
It was a big turn off to freedom lovers, but it is only the reflection of SteemIt.com.
Regarding the flags, we also have something here which is Freedom of Stake. It goes along with freedom of Speech. If you hold enough Steem Power you can influence what is promoted or suppressed on most of the front ends. By voting up or down with your stake you can improve or decrease the visibility of the published material. The stakeholder can also add or remove monetary rewards as well.
It may or may not be a good plan. Regarding the action of flagging for unpopular opinions, it is within the right of the stakeholder to flag or upvote based on their own criteria. I think in some cases bad decisions are being made, but that does not limit the right of the stakeholder to make that decision.
Here is how it works.. If enough people with SteemPower feel something should be displayed they can make it happen. If the content is unpopular or offensive it can still be downvoted, but it does not disappear. It remains on the blockchain and on some front ends.
You have a right to express your opinion, but you do not have a right to voice it unchecked without response and get monetary and visibility gains. (I am using the word "Right" loosely here)
So, yes it might be a bad decision and a waste of stake to flag for unpopular opinions. in a DPOS environment, the stakeholders can flag if they want to. If other stakeholders feel this is bad for the platform they can counter the flags or votes.
The idea is that those with the most stake will have the most to win or lose due to the size of their investment they should make good decisions.
I'm not sure I see that panning out so far, but it is what the concept of DPOS is based on.
This is a comment I made on a post that was flagged:
Each user gets to use their stake to allocate rewards, we get a set amount per day we can upvote or down vote with our voting power which is a by-product of holding SteemPower. Your post is open to up and down votes (flag) for a week.
At the end of the week, you get to keep what you have on the post.
Some give lip service for reasons to flag.. but the truth is each stakeholder can use their stake how they want.
I don't care to argue with you, I don't care how you feel... I'm just stating a fact and whether or not you agree that is how it works.
I like to think of it as the wisdom of the crowd. 4 people like it they upvote, 3 people hate and they flag.. most people ignore it. At the end of the week, you keep the results.
Again, I am not defending the use of flags or blocking information. I am just trying to explain how it works. You can hold any opinion you want about the actions of the people involved.
My understanding is that post visibility is primarily a front-end issue - with some encouragement at the API level due to the eay certain calls work. For sure, an UI can ignore the APIs and do their own thing. So, agreed that censorship is primarily a front-end issue. There's some residual effect at the API level and, afaik, none at the blockchain level. Well, that is unless the witnesses allow it.
Thinking about that though, with the exception of a very small amount of immoral things, I think I'd insta-unvote a witness that supported blockchain level censorship. I realise that puts witnesses living in censorious jurisdiction under some pressure, but yeah, cross that bridge when it comes to it.
All the dapps system calls go through official API. If you work on pure blockchain your costs rise dramatically. So if steemit.inc censor on API level, it will be censored pretty everywhere in steemit ecosystem.
This is one reason why I'm glad to see work that brings down the cost of running witnesses and API nodes.
Nods I agree. To my knowledge, the blockchain can't be edited, but the display of the data, of course, can be.
@whatsup,
Censorship should be implemented on every social media project! But somehow I don't believe the censorship flags on STEEMIT are fair enough! I see people abusing that word in here to do their dirty works and forcing newbies and etc to leave the platform! In that case I am not believing STEEMIT is using censorship 100% accurate way!
Cheers~
Yeah, it is sad some are using their stake to bully others with unpopular opinions. But I gave up on the idea some of these guys are good at building a business a long time ago. Giant egos without common sense.
if they were, they would have exploited the major censorship coming from Twitter/Facebook/YouTube back when it started months ago.
perfect opportunity, apparently wasted. can't help but wonder how much of the funds WEREN'T spent advertising the censorship resistant blockchain.
Why?
I even predict that there will be fronted for censored posts only.
I have a somewhat related question. I myself being a mobile user only ever use steemit to occasionally power up when I can, so for me steemit is my wallet. Ive been told there are other 3rd party options I can utilise to access my wallet and make transactions however I'm under the impression they would require a desktop or laptop. Either way, it's not exactly common knowledge and of course there is no central faq or anything I'm aware of to answer such inquiries. Furthermore if stinc deems an account against their TOS then do the keys still work to process rewards gained from any other front ends ?
Not that I ever see myself posting anything to get banned, but I can see this as a possible slippery slope..
Also, a morbid point that this situation has made me ponder, when someone dies or loses their keys etc. That stake is just forever static? Seems like the answer is obviously, but in a big picture of crypto shifting into the 21st century the whole how doth one bequeath their assets to another gets a bit convoluted. Most of the world's wealth is passed down to heirs, so large holdings of diversified crypto currency creates a need for some sort of encrypted last will and testament litigious maneuvers.
Say freedom the Lord of the blockchain dies today, does that mean we're basically stuck with his top 20 witnesses circle jerk until someone can overstake him?
Just my morning coffee ramblings..
Posted using Partiko Android
There are other wallets that allow you to access your funds. Since so few have been kicked off of SteemIt.com, I am not sure what happens at a wallet level. But it is absolutely not the only way to get to your funds.
Regarding death many in crypto talk about setting up a dead man's switch. Which is a dramatic way to say, when you account get's big enough to matter make sure someone knows how to access it. In my case my daughter and my husband will find out how to access my crypto funds upon my sudden death. (gee I hope they never have to)
Regarding freedom, yes, unless someone inherits his accounts we are stuck with his witness votes! Excellent points and questions, you are well on your way to understanding this whole new world.
I pulled hundreds of thousands of dollar value out of steem because of flagging not being in balance. I am convinced this balance issue is one of the main reasons why steem dropped to 55 in rank of cryptos.
Hundreds of thousands huh? That's an amazing story.
Yes. My wallet tells the story. In fact if someone reads my last comments they will see the problem of flagging and (main long term) downfall of steemit first hand.
Yeah .... You had Excellent timing to get out when Steem was at $4 ... I have been HODLing all the way down to 20 cents. Depressing .... Did you put all your earnings back into Bitcoin ? Other ? Wondering where a good place to put crypto these days ? TRON ?
I bought a home. My crypto holdings are majority BTC. Next is EOS. I like both very much and am waiting for as EOS steemit copycat and will restart my blogging there.
Thanks.... keep me posted. I’m also over on Smoke.io.... writing about the legalization of Cannabis here in Canada. Https://Smoke.io/@offgrid. Pretty good place so far.
Cool. I bought some pre shares of a Nelson BC CO-OP organic home grown BC bud cannabis company last year. I am craving blogging again. I have lots to say about money and liberty.
Yeah... I just ignore the negative flaggers on here and post away. Can’t wait to read your blog again....
Thanks.
I've definitely seen flags being misused, in my opinion. I think I've only flagged one post, that I found extremely offensive. While I'm not at all a conspiracy theorist, and I find most of them hilarious, insane, insanely out of pocket, or all three, I don't flag just because I think it's misleading or disagree (I kinda use the same decision calculus as on Reddit, except I vote less here of course).
However, I think all of this shit about censorship is ridiculous, and blown out of proportion, mostly due to the fact that the block chain isn't censored, as you explained. However, when people bring up stinc and flags as attempted censorship, I think it's a misrepresentation. Freedom of speech guarantees protection of all non-hate speech from the government. Companies can do whatever they want, although your opinion on their censorship means you may not use steemit as your front-end. Individuals can do whatever they want as well, and often do, because your freedom to speech guarantees others the same right to call your speech, opinions, etc. stupid and respond to them however they wish.
IMHO, whales can do whatever they wish, but must be ready to catch flags from the multitudes in retribution. Bernie gets all those flags from fulltimegeek and his bots, which in my opinion is a waste of resources, but they're his to use. Unluckily, I haven't seen people bidbotting all the way up to front page getting too many downvotes, but not everyone thinks it's so bad I guess.
I rambled a bit here, but I think I got my opinion on the matter across.
Posted using Partiko Android
As an opinion, I wouldn't flag for disagreement not even on a racist post. but if I were triggered, I could see it happening. I do want to be able to use my stake how I see fit.
The problem isn't that people are getting flagged, the problem is no big stakeholders are stepping up to help
You are zen about being flagged, as you are about most things. But what we have going on right now goes way beyond regular flagging even from a year ago. I know at least four of my Steemit friends are so incensed about this they are on the brink of throwing in the towel.
You are popular, and yesterday I wouldn't have commented publicly, but my new day resolution is to do the comment I want to say and vote for who I want to upvote without constantly thinking "will this get me flagged?" (yes voting for the "wrong" person can earn a flag now!)
I'm now thinking that the current waves of flagging censorship are designed to control the content to some extent and scare off "conspiracy theorists" as far as possible.
Because I'm involved in those circles I've seen several of my contacts come under attack and that has really been ramped up in the past few months.
Any new accounts, even well known researchers - with no wallet power - are screwed, and I have seen them wiped off the platform in less than two months.
yeah, I'm sad about the decision to flag for unpopular views also. The thing is in a decentralized system there is really no way for us to fix it.
Those with large stake seem to be very hesitant to "handle" each other because I guess they would all get called out on their bs. I really don't know why none of them step up more often.
Don't mistake my ability to admit there is no easy way to fix for thinking I agree with how it is being handled.
....allow flagging without affecting their rewards, would be a good start....(or takes 10x the amount of downvoting sp than upvoting,...or something...
Code is law, as you say - and people change laws all the time...
It could be coded as such.
This is true and exactly what it would take to implement a change!
Now let's say we agree. Oh dang it, who is going to code it?
We are in a rough patch here. I wish some of these guys could calm down while we solve some problems. Sigh.
I have my calculator I can use on my desktop, if that helps? lol
the 'rough patch' (from a commercial viewpoint), is killing steemit.
No 'serious' investor would look at this place, and the shenanigans,and see it as a stable place to put money...
They would see it as an egotist's playground, nothing more. A childish playground.
An erratic environment.
Not a place to park $$$$$$'s
Would the coding be a difficult job? if it were to be changed?
I agree that I can not picture any business putting in money right now,
Oddly it never seems to matter when the markets are hot.
The coding isn't that hard, it is the process of getting it approved and dropped.
I'm sure it would require a hardfork. which requires someone to write the code. Then it has to be worked into a testing zone, approved and 19 witnesses controlled by the Freedom account have to agree to drop it.
I heard whaleshares made it harder or more expensive to flag... I wonder how that is going?
...of course the question also arises... (which I've only just thought of..)
What if so called 'big' stake holders are not actually stakeholders, but using other peoples money, and acting only as employees?
Employees, who's employers have absolutely no interest in the value of the stake, only control of the machine...? (no different than banking and the gold silver market..)
Well that would clear up some of my confusion. I am baffled by their behavior nearly always. But I come from Corporate, where profits matter.
I guess what you are saying is as good as my assumption that they are dumb as rocks. ;)
...assuming ideologues are dumb, is grave strategical error...(if that's what happening).
If they are not working on any other narrative than from a commercial perspective, I would suggest they need to closely watch a lump of basalt and see higher intelligence in action...
Very clear and good explanation!
Thanks. Favorised it to share it with confused minnows ;)
All what happened recently just proves me how good concepted and working this blockchain is.
There is no censorship and Stinc can still follow the law as company.
Media makes pressure. Still no censorship. :)
Maybe now people get the idea of blockchain.. Especially combined with social Media.
Greets from germany
It's not the case that "there is no censorship". Clearly there is, in that the account is having their speech suppressed. The point is that the blockchain provides the tools to resist censorship, and that censorship is being resisted (though people have to use alternative front ends to actually avoid censorship).
If you want you can just use Partiko and avoid censorship completely.
Just read the darklords posts.. ^^
I dont think people talking against your opinion (which is also flagging) are censoring you.
Everyone can still read everything of your posts.
Posted using Partiko Android
Just read it here: https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-ransom-9-11-papers-hacker-group-banned-from-steemit-platform/
All news is good news! This is the best thing @ned has ever done for us and it nicely shows off the power of the blockchain!
It cracks me up how they chose to never censor @theshadowbrokers.
Dood!! Where you been? We miss you in SS! Your wif showed up recently swing by !!! 😭 happy New Years
https://steemit.com/teamaustralia/@itstime/steem-is-not-censorship-resistant-mwb8gwgg
People like to control what they don't like. They have power to shut it down they will.
Posted using Partiko Android
That's simply not true. In the crowd 3 people is 3 people. In stake driven voting it works completely different and you know that.
From what I understand, censorship on a DPOS blockchain is more or less like Democracy -- Government of the People, for the people and by the people, the same applies to Censorship most especially in Steemit, Whaleshares etc.
Just as politics (democracy) is a game of numbers, in the same vein, censorship on the blockchain most especially Steemit is a game of STEEM POWER or Stake
This post has been included in the latest edition of SOS Daily News - a digest of all you need to know about the State of Steem.
Editor of the The State of Steem SoS Daily News.
Promoter of The State of Steem SoS Weekly Forums.
Editor of the weekly listing of steem radio shows, podcasts & social broadcasts.
Founder of the A Dollar A Day charitable giving project.
From what I understand, censorship on a DPOS blockchain is more or less like Democracy -- Government of the People, for the people and by the people, the same applies to Censorship most especially in Steemit, Whaleshares etc.
Just as politics (democracy) is a game of numbers, in the same vein, censorship on the blockchain most especially Steemit is a game of STEEM POWER or Stake
Only reason people should flag is for plagiarizing
Posted using Partiko Android
Sigh, you missed the point.
Hi, @whatsup!
You just got a 0.55% upvote from SteemPlus!
To get higher upvotes, earn more SteemPlus Points (SPP). On your Steemit wallet, check your SPP balance and click on "How to earn SPP?" to find out all the ways to earn.
If you're not using SteemPlus yet, please check our last posts in here to see the many ways in which SteemPlus can improve your Steem experience on Steemit and Busy.
I got flagged for my post about ways to beat ideological flagging! lol
(and one more..)
Hi @whatsup!
Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 6.335 which ranks you at #198 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has not changed in the last three days.
In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 471 contributions, your post is ranked at #8.
Evaluation of your UA score:
Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server