Well, it's not exactly OJ Simpson, but the stakes couldn't be higher.
I'd put it up there with SEC v HOWIE.
The stakes are huge. A literal fight for survival between the SEC and Cryptodom. If the SEC wins, the growth of the promising crypto industry could be seriously stunted - with losses in the trillions over the coming decade in lost opportunities and ballooning legal efforts. If Arise wins, the stage will be set for sharply curtailing the SEC’s infamous power and ability to strangle its rival crypto industry under the guise of "protecting" clueless investors.
It's not that Cryptodom doesn't need regulators. The scams and criminal abuse that have cropped up in the past year beg for honest, impartial, and compassionate referees to come in and sort it out. The problem is in finding that kind of referee. Right now, you can be ejected from the game, nay jailed for years, for one flinch of movement before the ball is snapped. Remember your facts differently than the FBI, like Martha Stewart, and you go to jail for 5 months. There is no sense of compassion or fairness, only domination and vengeance. I fear that the Self Regulating Body of the old financial system may be trying to regulate its competition out of existence. Who can we trust?
DISCLAIMER: This article is only my opinion, which is based on limited knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes. I have only spent about 24 hours over the past month or so studying the AriseBank situation as part of the due diligence one must do when considering doing business with another company. This all happened right under my nose as I was talking with their small group of software geeks about how their planned products might fit into our ecosystem. I am not as smart as the SEC and I have not spent more than three weeks combing through the company's emails as one of their agents claims to have done. I'm just an old rocket scientist who quickly concluded that the FEDs must not be using their vast mental and investigative resources on this case. The material errors written into their complaint are overwhelming and obvious. The draconian means they are using to prevent the company from defending itself and to smear its image in the public's eye, makes my spidy senses light up. I won't recount those errors, but you can see a summary of the worst of them at this link. Here's another synopsis: What We Know
Apparently the FEDs did not feel the need to check their facts before launching its vendetta and blocking the intended use of an alleged $600M from innocent supporters who will now have to wait years to get their money back into productive use in a rapidly growing industry. Seems to me that the damage already done by the FEDs far exceeds the damage they merely suspect Jared may have done to his allegedly unsophisticated but crypto-literate supporters.
Howie and Arise Case Essentials
You'll recall from third grade civics class that HOWIE was a 7 to 1 Supreme Court ruling which held that "An investment contract under the Securities Act of 1933 is one that involves an investment of money from an expectation of profits arising from a common enterprise depending solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party."
All exquisitely reasoned, no doubt, but the net effect was that the owner of an orchard in Howie-in-the-Hills, Florida isn't allowed to sell you a row of orange trees if he simultaneously offers you the optional services of another company to take care of them for you.
Really?
And with that, an all-powerful SEC was unleashed, able to intrude into all sorts of businesses using that simple, "well-settled" case law.
What's significant about SEC v ARISE is that it could turn out to be the opposite bookend to HOWIE. The one that puts some sort of limits on runaway intrusion into areas of American life that don't really require great sacrifice of freedom for highly questionable level's of "protection" from our government.
AriseBank is just a pawn in this proxy war. It is a perfect, ideal proxy. A striped chess piece that if played well could win the day for either side.
The Perfect Legal Test Case
To make an ideal legal precedence test case you need the perfect set of representatives from the two sides who are battling it out in the courts. It should balance on an edge, so that the real issues are exposed, leaving no room for the courts and our lawmakers to avoid fixing the underlying root of the problem. We need a totalitarian regime and a rebel victim. A compassionate regime or a reputable victim simply won't have the same beneficial outcome.
For example, in SEC v ARISE, the SEC appears carefully chosen a case that it felt it could win easily, presumably in order to establish its rights to move in and take over a competing industry or at least to intimidate it into submission. They needed someone they could smear in the eyes of the public and his peers, someone who they could box into a defenseless corner by seizing all his personal assets, and someone they could get people to hate for everything he stands for. Jared Rice fit the bill perfectly. He has long record from growing up in a tough neighborhood and several failed attempts to pull himself up by his own bootstraps. He has a street fighting temperament and a trash-talking persona to go with it. He has enemies and an ex wife who are doing their best to undermine his reputation, apparently for child custody reasons. Despite the fact that he is a Bible scholar who has written a book about his climb up from the hood and has a loyal group of software engineers convinced of his innocence, he makes a perfect target to turn into a villain for the purpose of winning a power-grabbing court case with ease.
For the sake of my present philosophical analysis, lets pretend that he has the worst possible character imaginable, just so we have the strongest possible point about the evil of smearing someone's reputation so you can deny them their rights.
This is much better than picking on, say, a humble and lovable retired Sunday School teacher with an established reputation in the industry and four decades of passing the FBI background investigations necessary to obtain the highest security clearances as a rocket scientist in the aerospace industry. If harsh treatment were applied to such a Sunday School teacher, it might create greater public outcry, but it would not be as good a precedent for reigning in the abuse of power that is increasingly evident throughout the US government.
No, what you want is a case where a person with a highly smearable reputation gets pounded into the ground over the moral equivalent of jaywalking. Hold that up to the bright lights of public scrutiny, win the case, and then take it to Washington to point out the need for reform. Even smearable people are innocent until proven guilty and have rights to be treated with compassion and minimum necessary force. Even more, they have the right to not have their doors kicked in and assets frozen unless proven guilty after due process. This is American Civil Liberties 101.
That's why SEC v. Arise is such a pivotal case. It could backfire on the SEC in unexpected ways and bring in long needed reform to an unelected Deep State government that has grown far too powerful and uncountable to its people. The complaints against King George III enshrined in the American Declaration of Independence pale beside the abuses Americans must endure from their government today:
Mitigating Forces
"In shadowy silent distance grew the Iceberg too..."
-- Thomas Hardy, Convergence of the Twain
The reason I believe that SEC v HOWIE is a total game changer is that off in the distance another iceberg is forming, intent on keeping the SEC from harming the digital currency industry by getting congress to bar them from jurisdiction. Twelve State Senators and Representatives from Wyoming, backed by the state’s Speaker of the House, have introduced a bill, H.B.0070, designed to counter the current problems we’re seeing in the regulatory handling of cryptocurrencies. You can read about it here: Wyoming Senators Introduce Bill Exempting Tokens from Securities Laws.
On top of that, President Trump is taking the SEC to the Supreme Court over its practice of using its own in-house judges to handle cases instead of a neutral court venue. You heard that right. I'm not making this up: Reuters - SEC In-house Judges
If the SEC should wind up exposed as another example of deep-state corruption and abuse of power - following on the heels of IRS v. Tea Party and FBI v. Trump and Trump v SEC, we may finally achieve the critical mass motivation to clean house among the unelected bureaucrats that covet power at all costs. It would appear that the wheels are already in motion in Wyoming and Washington. It could gather huge momentum with a shocking David v. Goliath win by AriseBank. Of course, it might backfire even more should the SEC win using its venomous array of dirty tricks.
On top of that, major law firms with winning track records against the SEC are lining up to be a part of this historic case. They smell blood in the water, horrific government overreach and an opportunity to strike a blow for freedom before it is too late. Social justice champions from around the world are rallying to the cause. Arise appears to be assembling a dream team to help David take on Goliath. (I suspect it has nothing to do with Arise. It was not David that won that battle.)
1 Samuel 17:45 David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 This day the Lord will deliver you into my hands, and I’ll strike you down and cut off your head. This very day I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds and the wild animals, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. 47 All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the Lord saves; for the battle is the Lord’s, and he will give all of you into our hands.”
Yeah, that's kind of how Jared talks smack too. Giants don't like that.
"And nine, nine three-letter agencies were gifted to the race of men,
who above all else desire power." -- Lady Galadriel, Lord of the Rings
Badly Needed Reforms
I'll finish up with some of the reforms that might come out of a Trial of The Century where the Deep State is caught once again abusing its power to gain more power to abuse.
The government has nearly infinite time and legal resources. Individuals are quite limited. This is not what I would call a level playing field. I think there needs to be some sort of reform that puts limits on prosecutorial resources that bring that closer to “fair and balanced”.
Use of governmental power to hobble an individual’s ability to defend himself is reprehensible. If unlimited FED resources isn't bad enough, the FEDs then turn around and seize all the target individual's assets and block others from helping with his defense any way they can. Jared currently cannot buy or sell without the Mark of the Beast. This is naked abuse of power.
A self-regulating body for one industry cannot be allowed to regulate a competing industry. There's a clear conflict of interest. The SEC is staffed by members of the existing financial industry who apparently don't want to see more efficient and transparent competition gain traction. Recent SEC actions have had a chilling effect as many companies are rethinking their entry into the industry. The Arise case is clearly meant to send that message, since it has no other merit.
Compassionate and Fair Referees are needed. Getting thrown out of the game for flinching before the snap has got to stop. There is no sense of proportionality. Martha Stewart gets a jail sentence for a misstatement in an FBI interview and lethal gang members are caught and released in sanctuary cities.
Abuse of power needs to be punished. Harsh actions harm the investor. There needs to be an automatic appeal process whenever an accused person is subject to devious and draconian pre-trial actions. If the FEDs are found to be harassing a defendant and preventing him from defending himself - the FEDs should go to jail.
Abolish In-house Judges It is patently unfair to be denied one's constitutional right to a trial by a jury of your peers and instead be taken to a kangaroo court that just rubber stamps your conviction.
Social media discussions had already highlighted every possible issue and Arise was freely offering explanations and refunds. There was no reason to intervene. This question could have been handled in a conference room or coffee shop, not at the point of a gun.
SEC v ARISE could provide the impetus to put Babylon the Great back in its cage.
Then again, it might not.
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Here's a video interview I did with Crypto Connie Willis just before posting this:
https://steemit.com/bitshares/@bluerocktalk/breaking-news-arisebak-petition-to-sign-and-stan-larimer
Here's how you can help: MoveOn.org Petition
Thanks for the input @stan and I am glad you are posting on here.
I have no idea what is going on with Arise...whether it was for real or a total ruse.
What I do know is many piled on against Arise (and in turn against you) without looking at the facts. They simply saw government shut down and felt that was cause to jump on the bandwagon.
WTF?
How can anyone draw a conclusion based upon the action of the government? Especially those who are on the blockchain here. You would think that these people would know not to trust the government. They post about it all the time on here.
Yet when their money is on the line, all of a sudden Arise is the bad guy (scam) because the government said so. Again, WTF?
Ironic that BTS price didnt drop a bit due to the Arise situation (it did drop, but what hasnt). Yet these people allowed feared to cause them to lash out.
The government is only an arm for the banksters. That is what is behind this entire thing. If the SEC (I am sure at the urging of its master) can cause Arise to go under, the likes of JPM and GS are safe.
I think you are right...the tide is turning. We are seeing too much abuse from un-elected officials.
I am rooting for Arise...not because I know it is innocent but because I know its opponent is guilty.
This clash raises a lot of issues, ones that I had to spend some time mulling over before responding here.
Of course, the SEC is going to jump in. As the Dank Guide to Civics explains, people with power are motivated to seek more power. They always have a vision of the good, a vision that correlates well with their power growing. The Howey decision liberated that desire in the SEC, as it gave them license to wander out of Wall Street and exert their jurisdiction elsewhere. That's what we're seeing with SEC v. Arise.
The conflict of interest factor you highlighted, I didn't think of. Instead, after skimming the facts and mulling over, it occurred to me that the SEC is acting like an overweening legacy agency -like that part of the legacy media that wants special First Amendment protections denied to citizen journalists but kept for professional journalists. Unless said journalists resemble this lady, of course.
The SEC is legacy in two ways:
When it announced on July 25, 2017 that The DAO 'is' a security, was I the only one who felt like a binge watcher who saw the interjection of a last-season story arc that had already been closed? By July '17, The Dao had long been turned into a simple refund contract via Ethereum ledger overwriting.
As a result, its worldview is profoundly paternalistic - although in its defense, it tries to be 'paternalistic' in a way that an executor of a widow's trust would be. We need not question their motives to realize that their proper milieu is a world where the masses are essentially passive: potential playthings of smart-brained and silver-tongued sophisticates.
In other words, the SEC is a legacy institute of managerial society : a society split into a managerial class and ordinary folks. One wherein the latter accept their lot as people whose destinies are shaped by the former.
The clash between the SEC and Arise is the clash between the old world and the social revolution embodied by cryptocurrency. At stake is, do we have the right to direct our money as we see fit, at the cost of paying hard for our mistakes? Or do we not have that right, because of an imbalance of power at our expense which the SEC is there to ameliorate?
I hope it's the former. The latter does protect us, true, but it also condemns us to the role of wards.
Thanks for sharing this article @stan. It's really interesting to read about this case!
I honestly am not sure how I feel about it, and I'm definitely going to read in to it in more detail, but from what I do understand, this is my point of view:
A lot of the public did seem to be biased against arise in the beginning, but I'm not sure why. I work full time in ICO consulting, online cryptocurrency course creation and now blogging - from talking to friends who would be quite well educated in the industry they too seemed to side against Arise, but some are coming around.
I love that part of the article, it really sums up the situation extremely well! Personally, I feel that regulations are needed in this space, but I'm not sure in what way, shape or form. It's an interesting topic, but I do not think that the SEC is the right body to implement such regulations.
Thanks again for sharing this! Personally, I think that Arise Bank could help the whole market grow exponentially in the coming years, but we will have to see how things go.
Yeah that is a great line.
It is interesting to note@lukebrn, that certain segments of the government in the US are losing reputation with the average person. Of course, we still have the ideologues who will do anything to protect their party (and their representatives). However, departments like the SEC, IRS, FBI, FDA, and USDA all have been caught either exceeding their authority or being biased because of payoffs or some other type of influence.
Decentralized banking will end up taking place at some point...it just might have to be down the road.
As more of the public gets accustomed to decentralization, I think the centralized institutions, especially those that rape their own customers i.e. the banksters, will fall out of favor quickly.
We simply have to keep spreading the word of decentralization.
And keep buying Bitshares....that will be a force in decentralizing the financial industry.
That is interesting to not @taskmaster4450, thanks for letting me know! I completely agree there, I know that a lot of banks are looking in to the blockchain as a viable option at the moment, but I agree that it will be a good amount of time before it becomes a reality.
I too think that we need to keep spreading the word about decentralisation in a positive manner and the world will catch on. And yes I think Bitshares is great!
Thanks again for the comment.
Let's hope we don't see the government make an example out of Arise like they did with Ross Ulbricht and the Silk Road case. Here's to a more free and peaceful world where the needs of all are met. Onward and upward!
Perversely, that would be exactly what is needed to maximize the reform potential.
AriseBank is the greatest gift the working class could ask for.
I stand with AriseBank!
Appreciate your perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Nice post :-)
Thanks for the post Stan. I mostly agree with you - especially this point -
"A self-regulating body for one industry cannot be allowed to regulate a competing industry."
Both the SEC and Federal Reserve are composed of pre-selected individuals from their respective industries. It is simply anticompetitive to permit incumbents to regulate competitive businesses out of existence.
In a nutshell - we must not permit "regulatory capture" to chop at the young roots of this movement.
You've hit the nail on the head with this article. If the SEC succeeds in setting legal precedent that ICOs are in fact securities, this will have huge ramifications for the the entire cryptocurrency market.
Very nice article! Here is the Petition: https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/tell-congress-arisebank?source=c.tw&r_by=6261260 // Free arise BANK
YOU HAVE many votes but no reward at all...i dont like it.. although i have low vote value too but i upvoted you with the hope that you will get more from steemit.good kuck.
this is a good thing - it means that stan is preaching to the minnows like us and not the whales. Truly decentralized discourse.
Good post. But pls show the newbies love ok. Thanks
I love the introduction of the David and Goliath story into the article. Cool. I hope to have more knowledge of the Arisebank activities soon
Congratulations on a well done article. You have my vote and follow, looking forward to read futures updates on the topic that will definitely affect the outcome of this revolution.
Nice one Stan. 👍. Really how do you do it
I thought is fucking awesome. I am a technical guy, and as far as the tech stuff goes, u r correct about it all. All the haters in chat are haters because they play video games and do nothing :) Maybe siting all day makes your butt hurt!
Hy @stan Really a Nice Artical
A bit of friendly advice.
It is best not to promote yourself in the comment section of other people's articles, especially if you have no interaction with them. There is no need to explain what your username is...we all can see it.
If he wanted to check out your blog, he could simply by clicking on the name next to your picture.
Continuing to do that will keep pushing your reputation down until you hit negative, at which time your posts will not be seen.
Thank You @taskmaster4450 for a friendly advice :)
This whole situation is quite a complex mess yet on the other hand pretty obvious and simple.
Regardless of the MASS amount of data that will be looked over in this case (of which I for one am not going to invest the time in) history of which is far more trustable than charges or which hunts is the SEC has proven time and time again to use and abuse its power simply to try and gain more power.
This has happened with MANY of the regulatory institutions in this country for decades. I think any intelligent person knows that regardless of if there is any truth to the charges or not (which there must be at least some) it is a witch hunt of which is part of a much bigger "plan".
I am all for free markets. Yes there will always be some "evil" people trying to scam and take advantage of others. Yet to have institutions make examples of situations even if right in order to control entire masses is FAR worse.
If someone does do something wrong then yes, let them be held accountable. However I am so tired of one person or company being "evil" and then using that as justification to regulate everyone else and make innovation and progress expensive and time consuming for everyone else.
We shall see, though generally speaking history repeats it self.
Can you give some examples of when the SEC has abused its power?
Afaik, the general consensus is that the SEC has historically been way too toothless in its power to fight corruption in the markets. For example, in taking on the big hedge-funds+banks etc, the picture I've generally read is that it's been pitting rather average-IQ government wage employees against far smarter + higher-paid evil geniuses (if you're high IQ in the finance/legal world - where do you choose to work - for SEC or for private sector with 10x+ wages), and generally only ever succeeding in obtaining token wrist-slaps, penalizing the companies for a fraction of their corrupt gains and almost never succeeding in any jail time for the people at fault.
Meticulously articulated....Added to your thoughts above, the SEC has always been reactive but they seem to be rather proactive in their approach with regard to cryptocurrency. I have a feeling its a chess game before us, if they can win the hearts of the public, it would give them the impetus to go after the bigger picture and that's the budding potential of cryptocurrency... Its not a matter of customer protection but having their hands at the core of an ecosystem they are trying to grasp some form of control
Great article Stan!! What many do not realize is those of us who have invested in Arise Bank are still fully supporting Jared and the team. We were not scammed as the SEC is trying to imply. This is another example of the government wanting power and control over every aspect of our lives.
This is one I'm watching closely. I wonder what it would take for a bunch of Arise investors to form a class and file suit against the SEC for interfering with their lawful expression of free speech (as articulated by their spending of money)?
I was so pissed when that crap started - I had actually jumped on the arise wagon - there went that $110, as broke as I am it may as well have been $1100.
But all is not lost - I still have a fair amount of BTS and HERO - so I just have to wait...
I was so looking forward to put and end this unbanked shit.
I am one of the lucky ones that got black-listed about 15 years ago by a shitty bank doing shitty business - that's the price for poverty - if you fuck up a bank account you NEVER get another one.
It sucks when I go to cash a check that some shitty bank gets to violate the contract and steal $5 or $7 right in front of my face and there isn't shit I can do about it.
And here we go again, just when I thought I might have some bootstraps to pull up - some douchebag from the SEC comes and rips the fucking things away before I can even use them.
Come on sharing economy - kick in any minute now...
Excellent and interesting information and graphics friend thanks for sharing and contributing with this great contribution to the community greetings
This post has been upvoted and resteemed by @thethreehugs
Nicepost @stan. Thank
@stan wow great article
##Resteem##
Thank you, @stan, for providing a thought provoking, well reasoned, and articulate article on this topic.
I agree that in this scenario, and others; unelected, appointed officials are given boots that indiscriminately stomp on whatever stands in the way of their status quo.
It isnt even about trust in those that do the appointing, but instead a threat, As you say: to the very freedoms a nation's foundations were built upon.
I eagerly await the outcome of this case; and hope beyond all hope that a precedent can be set against the SEC.
This will allow digital economies to flourish in a free market, where the hand of regulators are not encased in iron, violent gloves.
Thank you again for this article. I've resteemed it.
Great article! Here is the Petition: https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/tell-congress-arisebank?source=c.tw&r_by=6261260 // Free Arise BANK
Congratulations @stan, this post is the eighth most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Hero account holder (accounts that hold between 10 and 100 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Hero account holders during this period was 352 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $9152.77. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, click here.
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Fear not. United we stand.
great article, I'm glad to see that you still trust erisebank, because your last articles gave me to think that you got off the donkey ..
thank you
i hope cryptodom arise will be win,,,, the stage will be set for sharply curtailing the SEC’s infamous power and ability to strangle its rival crypto industry under the guise of "protecting" clueless investors.
There is no question that this is the case. I've recently signed the petition, and--as it says there--"Not one AriseBank contributor contacted the SEC with a complaint."
This is the way human government has traditionally crushed any effort to free the masses financially. I've seen this kind of destruction since I discovered and began to participate in the liberty movement a quarter of a century ago.
Amen to that. I will continue to pray, for Arise, and for you as you lead folk to appropriate action against the leviathan. Thanks for all you do.
😄😇😄
Thanks for sharing this @stan.hope you will visit my blog too.God bless you
The simple facts of the matter are:
Your key word is "supposedly".
The "supposedly" was around the claim that they received that ($600 million) amount (that's what the CEO claims, but I wouldn't trust a word he says), not whether however much they did receive is lost to the investors, which is without doubt, imho (unless the government can manage to seize it and return it, which would be by far the best possible outcome for investors).
Hey stan. I want some expery advice frm u.
I was happy though @Stan, to see you actually reply to one of my comments - at least that shows that you do read them, so they're getting through to some extent at least :). I would further love to see you more thoroughly address all the red flags around this AriseBank ICO, all the clearly shown to be lies that the CEO made in promoting AriseBank as being much more of a real thing than it ever was, his dodgy history which anyone can google, and the size of your role in giving it credence through your associating your + Bitshares' names with an otherwise obscure dodgy-looking ICO, and thus leading many more investors to be potentially scammed, if in fact I'm right about it being a pure scam (which all the evidence is pointing to, imho).
If you could further elaborate on what kind of responsibility you see yourself having as a (at least self-declared) figurehead in this cryptospace, to uphold certain levels of ethics and due-diligence in promoting things, that would be very welcome too. And if you could comment on the negative effects on the whole crypto-space you see your actions as potentially causing, if in fact this ICO that you've played such a large role in pushing and now turning into a cause, is and always was in fact a total scam. Such as how this only highlights and speedens the need for the very kinds of government regulation that you now claim to be opposing - if the crypto-space, and figureheads within it such as yourself, can't self-regulate enough to even weed out such clear scams, then what do you really expect or think is best for the government to do? Personally, I'd expect+hope to see them coming-in to regulate.
My role is to fight for fairness. From our industry and from our government. I am watching both sides carefully and am satisfied that I am acting with fairness and integrity to the best of my abilities. I have been blessed with a seat on the 50 yard line in this one and this article makes what I am doing with that position very clear.
Support! Im bullish on bitshares!
Waiting for Quint
I'm kind of bullish on Bitshares too, but please don't help to further associate Bitshares' name with this Arisebank scam.
Hi @stan ! This opression from governments need to stop. Their manipulation, control and treatment of people as if we were robots needs to end. It will definitely end. Their governing is ending and luckily we will live to see it!
We are tired of being taken from what is ours. For all the stablishment over there, you need to know that your power will dissapear.
In the past we spoke about comunism, capitalism, socialism. All are centralized systems with different ways of governing.
Today we have a disruption, decentralization is coming, and all the laws that govern in the old school centralization will no longer be valid!
As @dan envisions, we will get the freedom, and without violence. Greatly most of the top brains in the world are now working on blockchain technologies and freedom is closer than ever.
Bitshares, Steem and EOS are definitely the top cryptos and the biggest transfer of wealth will take place towards the technologies that will give freedom to the world!
Hopefully Jared and the Arise are able to put an end to this old dinasty that is doing nothing else than pushing us out of our liberties and rights. And once this ends positively, it will have a huge growth impact for the crypto industry!
Regards, @gold84
The State of Texas vs. Jared Michael Rice - 2015
https://goo.gl/JJ8fNL
https://goo.gl/a9M6CU