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RE: A classic example of the reaction by many at hearing about UBI

in #basicincome6 years ago

The monetary economic system is the only system used since the start of civilization. Socialism, regulations and planned economy use the same system as free market capitalism. Capitalism and free market is just the idea that liberalism will work if we just purify it. Completely irrational and utopian assumptions.

Socialism and regulation are responses to the nonworking system, just like liberalism was suppose to be. Liberalism was response to the inequality of the feudal-system, where all the wealth was in the hands of the noble. The free market ideas was suppose to give anyone the freedom to build his own wealth trough hard work. But that idea got corrupted by employment. Liberalism was based in the idea that every man was his own employer. With employment some land- and factory-owners got rich on the work of other people. Basically the same feudal-system liberalism was suppose to solve.

Then Marxism arrived where the problem with ownership of resources and means of production was suppose to be given to the people. Most people like to use USSR as example of socialism, except the ownership wasn't given to the people like Marx preached, but taken by a fascist state. The name of this system is state capitalism. Again the same system as before, just new owners.

True socialism exist in ideas like Co-op businesses or the Alaska Permanent Fund. Both very successful ideas. Also the Scandinavian welfare system is highly successful and based on socialistic ideas. The US actually was the number one nation in welfare up to the 1970s, and the envy of the rest of the world. The world don't envy the US anymore...

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The monetary economic system is the only system used since the start of civilization.
actually that's not true.
Barter predated money...in fact it's still in use. Some cultures used a 'gift' economy...such as the native americans in the Northwest.

socialism, regulations and planned economy use the same system as free market capitalism
actually that's not true. There's a reason it's called a FREE market. The less regulations it has, the more FREE it is. The more FREE it is..the better it works. Exactly the opposite of a planned economy.

.Capitalism and free market is just the idea that liberalism will work if we just purify it.
Actually that's not true. Capitalism and the free market is the default setting. Just leave people alone and that's what they do.

The world don't envy the US anymore...

Odd about that immigration issue and the need to build a wall to keep them out.

No, the barter economy is a myth. It's based on the ideological claim you make a bit later in your comment, that free trade is a law of nature, and come natural to humans. Pre-monetary economy was based on sharing. If I give you meat when I'm successful hunting, you give me meat when you are successful hunting. Food go bad, so there is no point in holding on to it for profit. Best stated in the words of a hunter/gatherer I can't name: "I store my meat in the belly of my brother"

I already debunked the "free" statement in several of my comments. Regulations where put in place to protect people. Like harmful substances is illegal in food, pollution land, air and water is illegal, slavery is illegal... list go on and on. All regulations is a response to someone exploiting the freedom before regulation. You can't take it away and believe it will make things better.

You speak of economy like it's a law of nature. It is not. It is a tool of civilization. There is no divine state of economy.

Ok, I give you right in the assertion that 3th world citizens still want to come to the US... just like they want to come to Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore.....

The wall... I let Adam ruin it for you:

I actually think that UBI in some form is a great idea.
Perhaps even necessary and maybe inevitable.
Too bad people like you are giving it a bad name and slowing it's acceptance.

How am I giving UBI a bad name?

cute video.
Bogus.

To debunk the video you need to refute all of the articles it refer to. Claim it is bogus got no value

No...I don't have to do anything
The burden of proof rests on you. You are the one who is trying to convince ME.
Not the other way around.

Too bad, like I said.
UBI is a good idea.
Why are you trying to kill it?

The video already refer to articles the statements in the video is based on. The reference pop up in the up corner. If you assert they are false, you need to refute them... at least if you want to back up your bogus statement.

You already said that, and again I ask, How am I giving UBI a bad name? Don't just repeat "you kill UBI". Tell my why you state this assertion.

Holding onto the ideal that capitalism, at least as we have it now, is a system worthy of defending needs to go away. This system harms most of the people who are under it.
Something like 60% of the people in the United States self identify as conservatives.

And you just alienated them.

Please try to keep up.