Hi Everyone!
Now let's talk about numbers.
Credit: Anritco
Let's assume that you can control your emotions at the moment of writing to the talking and when giving a value to your work. So you can avoid statements such as...
-I suck, I should probably charge less-
-I will ask for less so they I'll make sure that they won't say no-... which is funny, because you are assuming that they will say no before even asking.
Since almost all of us live in different places of the world, prices for commissions can change drastically. This number will depend from three factors(Let's take for this a monthly period of time to analyze):
1. The cost of living (based in our needs).
First we will need to know how much money is needed for living (or surviving) a whole month (food and renting).
- In Poland (Where I live atm): You can survive for 250-300USD and live really well for 500USD.
- In Argentina (Where I am from): you can survive for 700-800USD and live really well for 1400USD.
- In USA (Tell me if I am mistaken): You can survive for 1000-1200USD and live well for 2000USD.
So there s A LOT of difference between one and another.
2. The expectations we have for our incomings and the quality of life we aim to have (based on point 1).
And that's perfectly fine! But if you want to save money for whatever you may want, you must have a bigger incoming than the cost of living. How much more depends from you and your goals.
3. How much it takes to us to finish a whole piece or part of it (in hours).
And this is probably the most important from all three because here is where we define the value of our time.
It's time for...
Credit: Anritco
Let's assume that I am living in Poland. So I know that the base and minimum I should earn monthly is $300, just to be "relaxed" and $500 for living not eating rat meat well.
But I also pay for many other things such as:
- Gym and other sporty activities ($50-$100).
- Eating better quality and quantity food due to constant and heavy training ($100-$150).
- Going out ($20-$50).
- Cloths and gifs ($50-$100)
And with this we come to the result that Poland is f%çk!ng cheap an approximate additional of $300 is added to the $500. So we got $800 for living like a king as I want and feel I deserve. But I also want to save some money for traveling. Let's say... In three months I travel and I think I'm gonna need 1200 dollars. Divided for the next months: 400. Added to the previous number, $1200 is what you are monthly is worth of.
Now we need to apply this understanding according to the amount of job we will have in the following month. Let's assume it is A LOT and we will work 17 hours a day from monday to monday (which was actually my case a year ago)... How do we charge the hour according to that?
See, our clients most of times want to be charged per hour. And all this numbers until now work for this. So how to fairly analyze it? Easy peasy: Let's count numbers as if we were working full time.
So months have mostly 22 workable days, with 8 workable hours each. These are 176 hours monthly. And if we are expecting AT LEAST 1200 bucks monthly it means that our hour will have a value of 7 Dollars. Which is pretty low actually. But for an artist that is just getting started is not that bad. (even tho' I would rise it to 10-15 bucks the hour due to maybe lack of constant work).
And there's more: At this point of my career it would take me 3 to 4 hours to finish a concept, but back when i was getting started it would take me the double or more. So 8 to 10 hours per concept means that the artwork (at ten bucks the hour) would have a charge of 80-100 dollars. And all that if we don't count the iterations that may add some extra time and value to it.
Credit: Anritco
To put things on perspective... right now I am charging something like $30-$60 the hour, even tho' I like more to charge by artwork because I am a lazy piece of s%!t too lazy for taking care of how much time it happens and I lose focus really fast. So I can't count the time properly.
Also I am trying to get some extra money for improving my workstation, since it could be WAY better.
Conclusion
Please take in consideration that I took a really REALLY cheap model of country (which doesn't make it have less quality btw... actually the opposite), so the fees should be different for other parts of the world.
Try the numbers by yourself and check if they work for you! If not... then tell me! Maybe we can make this equation better next time.
This doesn't really need to be THAT precise, but it s for making you understanding how much you are worth, how much your time is worth and specially to you to have an explanation to the client when they say "What? This is too much!": just show them the equation and ask them then if they would work for $2 the hour.
Thanks for sharing this topic! Pricing is always something that gives a lot of insecurity especially for those who are at the beginning. You are always afraid to waste your time or be underpaid but you don't wanna loose your job.... After some works I can only support your method. Even do when you have little experience it's even hard to understand how much would it take to make a specific work. But this comes with time I guess. Sometimes you simply set the price good, sometimes not. My teacher said that the important thing is, even if you realize you setted the price bad, is to do your best in any case! Anyway I honestly think you need to change a little the formula, because you won't work 176 hours during the months. Or better said, you will work but not for your customers (there's a lot of things to do when you are freelance: advertising, accounting.....). So I think you have to figure out how many ours you can really work getting paid. You also ave to understand the customer type you have to deal with. Is it a local, small activity owner or a large brand? This may count on your charge.
I totally agree with you. I always had the policy of giving 120% while working for someone, despite if I liked it or not. I always wanted to give a final product of quality and this is actually what gave me more and more job with time (and pushed my workflow and technique much further).
I agree with you about the fact that this technique of counting may not apply so well because of all the time consumed by talking with the clients and advertising, etc. But we can fix it in two ways:
1. You count that time as well as part of your job (which I encourage you to do).
2. You don,'t. (which I also encourage to do)
See, you are in your full right of counting all the time invested in your work. But in the end we still live in a capitalistic system (thankfully not in Steemit) and we need to give some part of our work away. This is (unfortunately) what drove me so far and stills do it! For example:
I had all June filled with work from the beginning to the end. Work from a client from Argentina, and I was asking him for budget according to the prices in argentina (using the knowledge that they wouldn't probably know how much living costs in Poland, which is fair because they would be aiming to pay with argentinian charges, so it's a win-win). But in the end, one of the 7 projects I was leading as concept designer was so long (and I will make a post about that, was for Raid) that in the end I understood that they wouldn't have the budget to pay me if I would keep the numbers that way. So I decided to start discounting by quantity to keep them hooked.
So as you can see, sometimes giving part of your job away, represents (sometimes) a good benefit.
What I am trying to say, is that there is no perfect formula for this. Also, it can vary a lot from the quality of the product you have and for that you should leave your ego behind, which is also hard being an artist (because the ego drove the artist in first place to do what he does !).
From your actual skills, we can tell that you gave 120% of you! Thanks for the example you reported, probably it's just a matter of "reading the game" sometimes! And there's a lot of factors involved; the client type, your value, if the client is giving you a lot of work... so in the beginning it's not easy to set a price properly but I guess with experience this will come easyer! Anyway I personally found very helpful to do an estimation based on "work per hour" as you do, to have an idea if you are completely wrong or your on the way!
Great post.... I thought you might get a lil tickle outta this! @anritco Congrats or working you way out of the rat race!
I almost think it cost more then $1,500-$2,000 a month to live in the states. Especially if you live in a city.
Move to Europeee :P!
The cost of living in the US varies greatly. In New York 1200 would hardly get you a room, I live in Dallas and with my brother as a room mate I make it on around 1k but have very little fun money. The poverty line is around 2k a month before taxes. There are cities much cheaper in the Midwest.
Holy guacamole! My numbers are wrong, but I really appreciate that correction, because it put things on perspective!
I just made an estimated based on the living cost that I found in the internet. It's really hard to know it since I've never been there yet. But again this is super informational. Thank you !
Thank you for sharing. Now let me shed some light. Do not trade hours for dollars. If you do you will be working so many hours you will never be free. Most people who trade hrs for dollars are broke.
If I were a Freelancer, I will charge more. (100-250hr) . So please raise your price. Next I will figure out ways to increase my value in the market place. (perceived value) Even if my price is higher, its still low because I am in high demand and better artist. You can do this by showcasing your work, using client testimonials, hosting free educational webinars. Another great strategy is to say I charge 200 hr if you are not satisfied its free. If you are satisfied its 200 an hr plus tip.hehe - Then make sure you record and document the project as you are doing it. Maybe a youtube live. Then you can share the process on steemit and make money. Last leverage and outsource. Hope this helps. Please share your work with us.
I entirely agree with you @thecryptoking ! This is the way I had when I started, and even tho' now it would be really waaay lower than I would ask for my work, this way of charging is set for these who are just getting started in this path. But I agree with your way of thinking. See, you must be an experience freelance worker and this is what makes you know all these things and share this information.
As I said I come from Argentina, and there when you get started at something, you are absolutely no one. So you have to earn that position and the respect from your clients. This is why I recommend start small and get bigger and bigger with time. Also I don't think it is too bad to work that much at the beginning. Because this will teach the artist (if it s an artist) in many many ways and make his/her technique get better. So there is something positive as well.
But indeed, after some time and experience it MUST be changed.
Well said @anritco | I have a lot of friends from Argentina in Fort Lauderdale. Keep on rocking!
If you are Freelance artist then i cannot say exactly, How Much the Creation should be charged. But If you are a freelance writer then simply Write in a Decentralized Social Network & Blogging Platform. Which Will Pay More than YOU have EXPECTED. For the Moment Your Article is UPVOTED by 15 People and You are Paid with 217.69 Dollars. Really A Good Payment...
Oh YES, I Forgot to tell you the name of the platform where you get paid this way - IT IS STEEMIT !!!
what should I do if I'm not a writer? ;)
Keep Using STEEMIT the Way You can Present Your Category. YOU Will Get Your Destination...
If we are talking about the freelance post, It really varies depending on the profession @allfabeta, mostly due to the difference on the time consumed to finish each project. So I think you can basically adapt it to yours =)
If we are talking about @cworldv99 I think you can try whatever you do here, but remember, this is a community made by humans and because of this, I recommend to you to follow few steps that can really help you to have a better approach to the community itself. (some things that no one does, but I teach them openly and say that they drove me where I am right now)
And about your first reply @cworldv99 I still work freelance for many companies in the world, which gives me the chance to charge them either more or less depending of where they come from. I consider Steemit is a great help although I use it always for trying to help others to get further in their technique (if they are artist) or in valuing themselves and their work.
Besides all the effort and love I put in my posts, I talk with a lot of people and try constantly to help them, participate in contests and in the community. Basically I put a lot of time in Steemit when I am out of freelance work. Such as I am doing in this reply. So please don't talk with envy, but instead of that try to learn something from all this and apply it to your "steemit-flow" =)
Thanks for infor Anritco. Being a freelancer can be very difficult because clients can rip you off, sometime undercut you and not even pay you at all.
For $1000-1200 USD and live well for 2000 USD, it really depends on the cities.
In NYC, $2000 is barely enough. In Texas, or Atlanta, $2000 should be fine. It also depend on your living expense too.
Damn, That s really expensive. This is one of the main reasons why I am living in Poland. Life here is cheap and all the systems managed by the government work perfectly. And of course it can vary pretty much here, but stills not even close from that !
This was a great post to read from a "real " person..meaning I'm not just reading a graphic from pinterest or something and it's from a person who can respond! I've been thinking about switching careers into the graphic design field or some little side hustle to hep dump the massive debt I have from college. This type of information is important to know and at least have a small grasp on before someone starts trying to freelance etc so I'm glad to have came across this! Hope to see more tips. =)
Gladly I will start posting more tips with time! I m really happy that this helps you and definitively, you should follow your heart in order to be happy with your profession. Don't let your pockets and wallet decide for you =)
Honestly speaking, you can charge any amount you want..
the questions is if would find any customers for
you should consider a market as the first value for your calculations and only then your needs
Agreed ! Actually sometimes when you charge more, some clients vanish, but others appear ! You never know !
and every time is a dancing around
This is a great tutorial which can work not only for artists but for any kind of free lance workers. I work as a private tutor and educational coach and the question of a price is always complicated. Clients often don't understand that the price includes much more than just one hour session. But we all have to understand the real value of what we do and as you say defend fellows from our profession,, explaining them how to calculate the coast of rheir work. Tutorials like yours help people to not underestimate their time and their work, fixing the right price for their artworks, lessons, services, whatever. Thank you for that.
That s the whole point ! I am really happy that this was helpful and of course even tho' this is a very precise way of calculating your time, you can always increase or decrease depending of reasons ;)
Well done - I would say you came pretty close to the US - For a family of 4 to survive you need at least 2,000 and to live well 3-4.000. Just because adding kids into the mix you have school stuff, medical expenses, more food (good lord the food bills), more tickets to fun places to travel to (which are expensive). But I guess if you are a single person - your numbers are spot on! Interesting read - thank you for sharing :)
EDIT: And as I saw in a previous comment I have to agree that it does vary based on where in the US you are as they mention. North Carolina is pretty inexpensive, costs of homes or rent is much cheaper compared to New York City, California, or parts of Florida for example.
Yeah California is crazy expensive.
Wow, that s so much ! I can't even believe it !
What are you guys doing in US? xD
Yeah, its kind of ridiculous at how expensive it can be - the inflation of things can be a bit insane. The biggest expense I would think for most are health insurances, house bills, vehicle expense and maintenance, and food. Just those necessities can cost a lot and cost more the more people in your family you support. It's crazy - when the kids graduate I'm moving to Amsterdam lol Seems nice there!
Sounds like a plan! I haven't been there yet, but i've heard that it is extremely beautiful !
Me either, and me too!
your work is not how much you value you it. it is always what the customer is willing to pay. I have photos that cost way less than what i sell them for but are worth way more than what they sell for in time money energy and printing costs. Dont ever let money stop you from doing what you like to do.
I don't agree with this. You see, if you say that your work is shit and you really believe that, then you will probably talk to the client in a way that subconsciously you will make him believe that your artwork is shit. And then the client will say "wait a sec, why am I buying this shit from the guy that says that his own work is shit?"
I really agree with this.
Yes ... I have a hard time with this and could never earn a living as an artists .... oh well.... upVoted and followed - Maybe I can earn a Living as an Artists here on Steemit. ???
I think you can! You just have to think about what you can give to the community instead taking only, and things will come x3 to you =)
I figured out my cost per square inch and I charge for that. So, if someone wanted a 18x24 piece it would be 220 bucks based upon a .50 cents a square inch fee. That covers material cost and my time. I find if I just base it upon the time it took me to paint it, emotional attachment and or sentimental value then I end up overpricing or underpricing. Plus, by keeping it a flat fee per square inch, if I kick the piece out quickly, I can actually turn a profit once in a while.
Woha! That s actually an amazing way to understand it. Do you apply it for your real live canvas?
yes, I apply it to any size art that the client wants. I also use wood panel instead of canvases. Im much better with wood working than I am with stretching my own canvases. For cost reasons, buying canvases at the art store is too expensive compared to 20 bucks for a 1/8 inch plywood. I have the lumber place cut my plywood for me so I have manageable pieces. I seal it with Gesso or acrylic paint. On my next story, I'll show preproduction if you want to follow and see.
I think that you can only charge what the market will allow. However it ts up to the artist to develop a market for their work.
Beautiful phrase !
This is great information! People don't realize how much different the cost of living is outside of the United States. This gives a different perspective on valuing your time and worth. Especially things that you create, such as artwork. You should base things on how much you think it's worth, not how much you think someone would pay for it, because that can be subjective and undervalued. Let them choose how much they want to pay for it after you've set your price. A very positive message for people to get out and explore and have confidence in themselves and plan life accordingly. Thanks for sharing :)
I agree with you @cryptodaya ! Although this is a guide for establishing a base for these who are entirely lost and undervalue their work even more than the undervalued price we can get from these maths =)
Thanks !
Interesting approach... you seem to advocate for a pricing model based on what the artist needs, which is good, but I wonder if clients will react to it.
I know when I was first starting, I had to accept wages that were pitiful by USA standards - $5/hour or less - and work up from there. Now I'm getting $30-40 per hour on my best gigs!
Chase Jarvis's advice sticks in my mind about this: "Your $50 client won't ever be your $500 client. The best way to earn more is to find new clients."
Your writing is fun to read man. I struggle with this a lot just like many others so I'm glad you broke it down. In the comics industry its pretty tragic when in comes to pay, but there are always ways to supplement your income through shops for prints and con commissions and such. Not to mention Steemit. :)
Is it fun because my english sucks? :P
Indeed, I think there s only few other types of art harder than comic when it comes to payment and realizing (say, animation). You have to sacrifice a lot and what you get back is so little.
But I agree, Steemit is a great opportunity for artists to get a second chance. And I am willing to help all of these that can leave their ego behind. =)
It definitely sux trying to evaluate yourself in any aspect of life. I know guys who are great salesmen and not so good artists that make decent money and others with awesome art that are just too shy or lack self confidence who make a living. Unfortunately in almost every field of life, the best sales people, not the most talented people, get the money.
But man, this is because there s a misconception of things: humans should be on balance. As we are mind, body and heart all together and we must work on all these aspects together. If you create a product, you also have to know how to sell it. You have to be a creator and a marketing guy.
You have to analyze what the market wants and put yourself to work on that. Even (and mostly) if it is out of your confort zone.
Respect for creating really dope content ,both parts was really educated. As I freelancer ,can say that you wrote perfect tutorial . Respect
This is a great post! When people balk at the price of your freelance services, let them know in addition to your equation that the value of your work is more important than the price itself.
you tackled a very good subject that u certainly caught my attention.
best of luck with your job and i will be following you more
Your talent will add value to you...keep steemit
I also want to be a freelancer artist but....
The cost of living is crazily high in the NY and some other state in USA.
I am a wood worker and do mostly 'spec' jobs that I sell. Sometimes if things are slow I sell pieces at discounts to spark interest. Nice article. I upvoted! Checkout a wooden Steemit Sign I made using Japanese technique of Shou Sugi Ban (Burnt Wood)
Here is the whole process if interested.
https://steemit.com/art/@bek/i-made-a-steemit-logo-using-the-ancient-shou-sugi-ban-japanese-wood-burning-flaming-hot-steemit-sign-handmade-wood-art
Even tho' I consider this is spam, I think your post is really amazing and I upvoted it, so please make sure next time to have another way to promote yourself =)
My post going to be popular https://steemit.com/steemit/@vinay-negi/7-simple-and-easy-tips-for-minnow-to-be-a-whale
Not if you spam like this @vinay-negi =)
really. well I promote my post first time and u catch me
nice blogs.. followed you
thanks for sharing , nice post dude @anritco
Jak dobre pozdrav.
Congratulations! This post has been upvoted from the communal account, @minnowsupport, by Anritco (Nic Morales) from the Minnow Support Project. It's a witness project run by aggroed, ausbitbank, teamsteem, theprophet0, and someguy123. The goal is to help Steemit grow by supporting Minnows and creating a social network. Please find us in the Peace, Abundance, and Liberty Network (PALnet) Discord Channel. It's a completely public and open space to all members of the Steemit community who voluntarily choose to be there.
If you like what we're doing please upvote this comment so we can continue to build the community account that's supporting all members.
Great job, keep the posts coming. Really enjoyed reading this, thank you for sharing :)