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RE: So I encountered an Anarcho-Communist and this is my discussion/debate invitation...

in #anarchy8 years ago

So much great content, @dwinblood! I'm confused as to why more of your posts haven't skyrocketed to trending stardom.

I think you've covered much of the basic discussions I see in the various anarcho-capitalist vs. anarcho-communist debate groups I've spent way too much time in on Facebook. Often it comes down to stuff like this:

commies:
You can't justify land ownership, so private property has no basis.
Someone is always exploited when the worker don't own the means of production.
All good capitalists use the state and are cronies by definition. The haves get more while the have nots go hungry.
Anarcho-capitalism has never worked anywhere on a large scale.
There is no such thing as a free market. Never has been. It's a myth.

cappies:
All attempts at communal ownership break down without market forces to determine value.
The market via voluntary exchange is the best mechanism for allowing anyone to improve their standard of living without coercion.
Anarcho-communism has never worked anywhere on a large scale.
There is no such thing communism without government rule. Never has been. It's a myth.

Or something along those lines. As much as I've become a die-hard anarcho-capitalist over the past few years, I do think the commies have some valid points, specifically with regards to other mechanisms we could use to organize society such as a gift economy or a sharing economy. The word "economize" implies savings and conservation, but much of the crony-capitalist economy is about planned obsoleteness, environmental destruction for profit, immoral actions rewarded by profit, etc, etc. We cappies try to hand-wave it away by describing a market free of cronyism, but the rebuttals argue no such thing exists.

Mostly, I'm trying to improve human well-being while also keeping the species alive. I think both sides have positions which are worth talking about, but, unfortunately, most of the discussions I've engaged in haven't been very fruitful intellectually.

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Thanks for your feedback @lukestokes is always welcome. I am not sure why my posts don't do too well, but honestly I've stopped worrying whether they do well or not. Living by what I've told other people "If it happens, it happens." If I make anything at all that is more than I get from posting similar things on reddit. Our community is not toxic like that place can be at times. Perhaps adding the money incentive might help keep people a little more civil, I hadn't considered that but it just might help.

I don't rule out anything anyone says (including an-commies) I simply know too little about that topic at the moment. I don't see how you can accomplish the things proposed by communism without some group or central planning of some sort, and I really see that no different than a state. It is a group that ultimately dictates how the rest of the people live. The group may be GREAT people and often when something first starts they are. In my other post I referenced I explained what I think causes problems with GROUPS and ORGANIZATIONS over time even if they started out as great ideas. I think MANY ideas people come up with for governance could work and they are for good intentions but they are all highly susceptible to the same thing and I have yet to see a case where given time that thing does not occur.

Great points @lukestokes

I have debated endlessly with ancommies about these subjects. The main problem I see is that they seek some central planning. They can't trust people so they want...people to govern them.

Here is a piece I wrote on the subject

https://steemit.com/anarchy/@kyriacos/anarchy-and-blockchain-technologies-an-alternative-perspective

Thanks Luke. I referred back to your comment several times over the past couple of days. I've posted the next part.

Dang, you wrote a novel! :)

Did you see the amount of crap people responded with? Kind of hard to give them a fair response without doing so. I even left some stuff out.

I've been watching these ancap/ancom debates for quite a while and the only conclusion I've been able to come to so far is there haven't been any conclusions. Often, it's just a lot of back and forth with a lot of wasted time. So much of discussion is around semantics and word usage, not something solid which can be proven in the real world. At this point, I'm fine with whatever works and removes violent-backed, authoritarian coercion from the world.

You hit the nesting limit... so responding to your latest reply.

If you read my last two paragraphs in that latest post you'll see I kind of am at the same conclusion as you.