Summary
I hear and read from many libertarians, anarchist and like minded that a 100% free society without governments (on larger as well as on smaller scale) and with a 100% free market is perfectly able to function well! At the same note I hear and read from individuals with the same ideology all the bad things we've seen in history regarding other systems like socialism, democracy and using the most extreme cases without going in details but simply ask if you would like to live in a communistic society as Russia once had, or live in a society the Germans once had in the first part of last century.
I think it is time to stop preaching free societies! It is time to start creating them! The best way convincing people is lead by example! Start small! Show the world how it can be done better!
At the same note, I suggest to start talking and informing people about those projects that are already out in the field like the village Ruigoord and ADM in the Netherlands or Christiania in Copenhagen/Denmark.
Facts and Experiences
Russia is actually very interesting as a comparison. After the communistic system fell down through the revolution Yeltsin started, what came out? The communistic system collapsed, the government didn't had any say in the country anymore, it fell into total chaos. The results we all know: through the chaos, the power was taken by individuals and their groups; individuals/groups that can be referred to as the mob aka mafia. They starting to rule the society and still do. A society suddenly without government, turned into a society where the rules of some individuals and criminals applied! What we need to learn from this is: We need to think carefully how to transform societies. Revolution is not the way to go! Evolution is! I invite all the libertarians come forward with practical ways to start the evolution from government run societies towards non-government run societies.
I read and hear libertarians say: even societies with less government can be very happy and referring to Switzerland and other small states in the western world. I also hear and read: societies in eg Africa are also happy!
Of course in Africa people can be happy, and they look, and are happy! And I know this from first hand experiences, since I spend quite a bit of time in quite a few African countries, and not for holidays! I have had drinks, food and conversations with those who live in the slumps; I have had long conversations with the educated, with the wealthy, with the poor, with the jobless. And I can tell you, a life in most African countries is valued (much) less then in western societies, and many more problems do exists in African society than for instance in the Netherlands. Problems of health, safety, corruption! And although some of these problems have to do with the state, the government; most of them do not: Gangs everywhere! They have nothing to do with any government, but ruling large part of the local communities; Taking but not Giving! Tribe kings who manages again and again to persuade their followers to go to war, leaders who fill their own pockets, leaders who do not have the common interest of their followers in mind. And these tribes are not states or governments! Actually, the state can only exist because they deal with the tribe kings. When they would not, the state/government would stop existing! Tribes are ruling the countries, not the state/governments! Being member of these tribes is more or less on voluntary bases! Isn't that what libertarians and like minded are preaching?
Facts: most African countries have the basic necessities not arranged in their societies: no work, no money, no facilities, no schools, no electricity. I've sat in many meeting at companies that have money (much more than the average) and needed to use my smartphone to get some light in the room very regularly. Even the generators and backup generators did not work, while the electricity goes down many times a day.
Facts: when dad feels his son or daughter is becoming to intelligent by going to school, the kid is not allowed to go anymore! Of course, this is an example of several cases and does not apply to all fathers, but just saying! If you will, I get the person who experienced these events over and over again while being a teacher in small African villages to write a post for you; Absolutely first hand experience!
Facts: when water wells are developed by charity organisation in a village that had none, the females are destroying these again and again. Why? They want to be away from their own home for the entire day walking to the next village to get water, since when staying at home they will be beaten all day long by their husbands! Again, this does not apply to every family and husband and wife/mother, but these cases are not an exception! These cases are quite common! And again, if you will, I get the persons who experienced these events over and over again to write a post for you; Again, absolutely first hand experience!
About happiness: Well The Netherlands is generally voted for as having one of the most happiest citizens in the world; this year we are at 6th position; Read about it here. Why are countries that have a very solid social system taking care for those who are jobless, who are ill, who are old and so on, always end up in the top of the charts?
Stop Preaching, Start Real Conversations with Depth
I suggest to start talking and informing people about those projects that are already out in the field like the village Ruigoord and ADM in the Netherlands or Christiania in Copenhagen/Denmark. I happen to know a little bit of Ruigoord and ADM.
I'm someone who still need to be convinced we can create societies based on 100% freedom, 100% free market, 100% capitalism, without a (local) government, but I do visit those places and engage with people the people being part of these local communities. I still know too little to be able to state something about Ruigoord and ADM, what works and what not. But I can tell you, it is for sure not all hunky-dory! On the other hand, I have my fun and learning times when being at these places, whether it is for a nice festival, or the conversations I have with individuals who have their art workshops at Ruigoord, have decision making positions in the community, or live there with their entire family with children born and raised within the community.
I do not want to mention all the failed projects and societies here in this post, since I simple do not know enough of them. But when searching for the lists of failed libertarian/anarchist (and similar) projects and societies in Google or any other search engine, you'll see the list is BIG. I invite all libertarians and anarchist to tell me that I'm wrong! I love to hear your side of the story. But, please, I also ask you to take a 360 degree view at things, since that is the only way to create bridges between individuals with different opinions, the only way to have meaningful dialogues, the only way to learn, the only way to come to practical solutions, the only way to convince others.
Stop Preaching, Start Acting
I think it is time to stop preaching free societies! It is time to start creating them! The best way convincing people is lead by example! Start small! Show the world how it can be done better!
Excellent Brother!!!
I wish i my voting power was fully up, but i gave what i could here on this post...
Following, and look forward to more posts like this.
STEEM ON!
Thanks for your quick feedback. Do you have some ideas how preaching can be turned into real conversations, education and maybe even creating practical real-life examples?
You should definitely check out my past episode with a few awesome steemians on exactly this topic.... May bring an answer to your query!
LINK HERE
Can you give some specific URLs? Since otherwise I need weeks to go through everything you have on your website :) Thanks for the share!
That Hyperlink takes you directly to the audio file for the particular episode i was referencing bro.
Thanks, cool, will listen to it!
Thanks @edje...
...spot on writing! we need to Stop Preaching, Start Acting... the armchair activism only goes so far!
Showing with examples, and implementation is the only way to convince others. Or maybe by acting, it shows libertarian societies may not work. I like to believe it can work, but I'm not convinced at all! I get tired of the many libertarians and anarchist not going into real conversations, not being able to point to real life examples, using only really string words to make their points, don't provide any solutions to practical ways of how to implement free societies, not acting themselves. Although I love to make good conversations with those who want to. I love the learn! I love to find solutions together! Maybe I can be convinced? Maybe I'll even participate in starting a real life project?
I have to honestly say that I'm not well educated in these things. I think though that people as a whole can't function well without some sort of governing body. From what I notice (and this is my personal opinion), people in groups can't think clearly and the weak minded follow the strong minded. It's like you say, some will seize power and more likely than not, they won't be the nicest people.
I'm on your side! Within Steemit we have many who are not on our side, they have different opinions. I really like to make conversations with them, to find common ground, to find solutions, but these conversations stay usually at the level of libertarians/anarchist preaching and not wanting to go a level deeper in the conversation. While I do not believe in such societies, I seek contact with these societies, since we can only learn from others.
You're completely right! To be honest, I'd love to believe in these ideals, but realistically speaking, I just don't see it happening with humans as they are.
Lets see if I can find some libertarians/anarchist who want to start something in practise. I discuss with my friends to arrange for ourselves when we are with pension, everything, from support we require, to place to live etc etc. Quite a libertarian approach, but generally I don't mention this in my conversations with libertarians and anarchist, since they never ever ask me those questions. I dont get questions to my questions, but only counter questions: do you like fascism? do you think government are good? and so on. I always try a second and third time, but generally get the same answers, or the other party stops the conversation.
I hope you find a good conversational partner for this! I know I'd be a bad one on most topics, since I don't know a lot of facts about basically anything. I understand many things, but facts just don't stick. That makes it really hard for me to be in many discussions, because people love facts and examples as valid arguments.
I fully agree with you facts and examples are what makes things more believable. Those are what I like to hear and learn from the libertarians and anarchist, but generally they dont give them :) That is what worries me a lot, hence I make the statement most of them are preaching, and not necessarily with the right effects since when preaching, you must also give real substance to the content otherwise you only convince those how are your followers and already convinced, and any other just walks away with a bad feeling since nothing really convinced that individual. I keep on searching for those with whom I can have meaningful and openminded conversations! :)
With Butter?
Be the change that you want to bring about
:)
Good work, I've just resteem and shared in Facebook your article... Upvoted and follow you are logical :-)
Thank you!
Very good thoughts. Leading by example is always more powerful than just telling people what to do. Maybe this short video can give everyone who sees this some inspiration:
Thank you for sharing this.
What about starting a (small) community in real live, local and all with like minded and start implementing the anarchist way of life? If you wish to be decoupled from government, go to some country where the government is not really minding the small communities? I know some European countries where that is the case, or Asian countries, or even African countries. Maybe it can even be established in the Netherlands; Ruigoord and ADM are good examples of those. For sure the government is not completely out of the picture when being part of those communities, but for sure a lot of government rules do not apply to Ruigoord and ADM and I know that for a fact! The festival I was at last weekend, Wildeburg, also many of the rules applicable for events and festivals do not apply to the owners and promoters of Wildeburg. I can inform you how they did that if you like to know.
Sorry for the late reply! How would you describe an 'anarchist' society'? To me, anarchy just means respecting each other's self-ownership and property. Therefore, the anarchist way of life could be very broad. It could even mean just leaving each other alone. Of course I recognize the value of having a strong community, but I wonder how big the effects are of communities such as Ruigoord and ADM.
I suspect the lonesome anarchist can achieve a lot in the community where he/she already lives as well. To me, moving to a certain part of the country to 'live the anarchist way', which means giving up whatever you had built up in your own community, seems to portray that you don't really want to get rid of the state, but just to run away from it. There are more than enough solutions (as the video above shows) that can make a difference in any community, regardless of whether people are consciously living 'the anarchist way of life'. I think I'd prefer creating my own grounds to play on, instead of playing the state's game. Anyone can spread anarchy anywhere.
I look forward to reading your response!
No worries on timing :) Conversations does not have to be realtime here on Steemit :)
What I noticed on Steemit is a great number of Anarchist and Libertarians pushing the message, get rid of the state, get rid of the king, get rid of any institutions and make agreement together. Slave this, Fascist that and so on. Strong, strong words! And when I ask how to evolve from what we have now into what is kicked at and preached (100% liberty, 100% voluntary, 100% free market) and I ask some basic things that will happen for 100% sure (for example some murdering someone else) I get no answer other than, no centralized institutions, no police. I also get the answer: it'll solve itself. Well, I dont think so! :) Last two days I'm in contact with someone who calls himself cooperative agorist and he seems to be a bridge builder and I'm trying to digest what he was informing me about. I generally dont like strong words, preaching while not being practical. Fact for me is that when people around you can be convinced to live the anarchist way, this probably takes a couple of generation, or maybe never will, therefore I suggested to seek those communities who have like minded; That is just my practical way of thinking. Another practical way of thinking is: when we have a lot of 'solo' islands, this has less power to evolve then when those 'solo' islands form their community, in geo location I mean, since no matter what, until we have virtual reality developed that can give us the exact same experience as our real lives, our lives are local in geo terms and not remote as can be lived through digital channels like Steemit. I simple have difficutlies with those who say "well, we just have to see how things will be", since when we for instance decide to remove the state tomorrow, lets assume we can get enough traction to achieve that, what will happen then? 99,9999% for sure we end up in total chaos and from that chaos some other leader steps up, and not because that leader can force this, the mass makes this happen, they will follow that person or group because of their good marketing, or for whatever reason.
EDIT: I have read the whole article you send, and I must say, I kind of follow how it is presented, but it is all so theoretical. Fact is that people will abuse the freedom. My question generally is: Who determines if someone is an abuser, What counter actions are allowed to be taken towards the abuser, Who and How are these actions defined, Who executes the actions. As long as this is the individual, I foresee tremendous problems arising. When it is some group in the community, how is that different from what is called the state? In the link you provided, I have again issues with the strong words like 'steeling' and 'theft' and the example given comparing the state with a restaurant is a one-sided view, it is not 360 degrees view. As we now can see on Steemit, more users, more abusers, and even those who like to do good, are starting to play similar games as the abusers. 'Bad' spreads so much easier than 'Good'. History shows this over and over again.
EDIT: not sure if I mention this to you, but you know how individuals are, when for instance going with a group of friends to a bar and it is common that each member of the group gets a round of drinks, it are always the same who gets them without any questions and concerns, and it are always the same who try to skip a round. I've seen friendships coming to an end because of that. Multiple times, in different groups. And I've heard this from others as well, their experiences with their groups. Those who do not contribute in this 100% voluntary actions, are in my honest opinion the abusers. And to me, on something as simple as this, this will for 100% sure happen in a local community based on 100% freedom and 100% voluntarism. All facilities required for a local community to prosper, and I mean the common infrastructure, eg roads from one property to the other, schools, hospital and all you can think of that is not possible to create by yourself, and not with just one or two or 10 neighbours, requires many people to voluntarily contribute to get it materialised. When always the same people doing this and the same people not contributing, what do you think will happen? The community will fall apart. Those who do not contribute: will their children not be allowed to get an education? Will ill children not get medical treatment? That is inhuman IMHO, children are not responsible for their parents actions. So how will this work in practise? Also here it is too easy to say "well, we dont know, we never tried it, lets see what happens, it'll sort itself out", since I have big doubts it'll sort out by itself, at least that is how I look at things based on everything we've already experienced in history. I would love to debate this topic further, how solutions could look like, and it are these topics that need practical solutions thought of before even a local state is transformed into an anarchist community in order to prevent all sort of conflicts. Contracts is one, following contracts is two. Same for norms, yes, likely quite a few people will follow the norms, but for sure quite a few people will not follow the norms. The later will cause the frictions and these will not go away by itself.
Well said freedom!! We have freedom to do legal things, but not illegal!!
Are you a libertarian/anarchist or similar minded?
I voted for you, please vote and follow me: https://steemit.com/science/@quantklv1/einstein-s-gravitational-waves-found-at-last
Very interesting article! Thanks for enlightening me :) Following
You're Welcome :)
what excellent and well thought piece of writing upvoted
Thank you