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RE: Response: Wouldn't Warlords Take Over

in #anarchy8 years ago

Yes we do. I didn't say everyone would magically behave. If I did let me know where. (smile)

We also have NOT been teaching people to question authority. We have been instead pushing for conformity. In fact when the Prussian Education System where the term School comes from was implemented it was lauded at its ability to help inspire conformity. This is the system virtually every education on the system on the planet now follows and uses.

So what we've been doing before is really irrelevant. That is an apples and oranges type of comparison. When using logic that is actually a fallacy. I could turn around and say "well they also insisted the world was flat for years too" and I'd be making the same type of logical fallacy.

Pointing at something else to try to use as an example of why a completely different idea will not work is very ineffective in terms of refuting something. People do try to use it a lot. Most of the time it is effective because people are distracted into thinking that is actually relevant. It is not.

Will we still have people with psychosis, deformities, abnormalities, etc in ANY society? Yes.

The difference between a system based on Anarchy where the population truly understands it and knows about NAP and such is this.

They will also know that someone else does not have the right to authority over them. They will be immune to appeals to authority.

So could that psychotic person kill people? Yes. Yet once they are identified we can kill them too. NAP does not mean we will not defend ourselves.

Also since we don't believe in authority there really would be no authority figures. So unlike with the state this person would not be rising through the ranks and gaining more power.

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Let's say that schools really are creating conformity. Look at our actual culture. Movies, TV, books... a huge portion of our media is actually anti-authority. The government is almost always the villain, even when they are the good guys there's often a conspiracy from within or something.

Our culture is far more anti-authoritarian than you give it credit for!

So unlike with the state this person would not be rising through the ranks and gaining more power.

There are plenty of ranks to rise through. Corporate ranks and social ranks, in particular, can give a person a lot of influence. Understanding the NAP doesn't mean that a person who seeks power will stop seeking power, any more than reading the Bible makes a religious man a good person. In fact, a man who wants power would use anarchist principles to justify his rise to power.

You'll want to call me a nutjob at this point, but this is actually pretty f undamental. You see the same thing in religion. As Reza Aslan noted on a The Daily Show Interview:

“Part of the problem is that there is this misconception that people derive their values from their scriptures. The truth is it is more often the case that people insert their values into their scriptures. I mean, otherwise, every Christian who read the Bible would read it exactly the same way. In this country, not 200 years ago, both slave owners and abolitionists not only used the same Bible to justify their viewpoints, they used the same verses to do so. That’s the thing about scripture, its power comes from its malleability. You can read it in any way you want to.”

Educating people on a principle does not make them follow it. If it did, we wouldn't have so many Christians clamoring for war. The Bible is pretty explicit on that whole Thou Shalt Not Kill part, but it's been used to justify war more times than I can count.

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Our culture is far more anti-authoritarian than you give it credit for!
- Ad Hominem - another logical fallacy. This does not do anything to discredit what I said. People also read books and watch movies about serial killers, mass murderers, car theft, etc. That doesn't mean they enmass are going out and acting out these things.

There have always been stories and media that are anti-authoritarian. That does not mean the public acts on and believes in those things in their day to day life.

There are plenty of ranks to rise through. Corporate ranks and social ranks
And? Without a state to force me to deal with those corporation and social ranks, why does that matter? It is not a problem that these things happen. It is a problem when someone rises through the ranks of something that takes choice away and makes it no longer voluntary. People can group up. They cannot force me to be part of that group.

It'd be pretty difficult for a psychopath (unless they concealed it in some long con) to rise through the ranks in a NAP society. Their behavior would be unappealing and they would not find support.

Educating people on a principle does not make them follow it. If it did, we wouldn't have so many Christians clamoring for war
So far that is true, yet society has been 100% statist (whether religious or non-religious) in history up until this point. It has been based around the idea that someone has authority over you whether it be a Ruler or a Preacher.

That is the reason this would have to be slow. Until people realize that no one has authority over them it would not work.

You are trying to fit the concept into HISTORY. It hasn't been tried in history. Whether it will work or not is indeed speculation. WORK or NOT. It has not been done, so it would be a grand experiment.

One thing is for certain states of all sizes and combinations of ideologies have been tried. Some of them function well for awhile, but ultimately they are all corrupted and abused. Some of them kill a lot of people in their formation, and then don't work so well.

Religion is the same for the most part.

People believing other people have the authority to direct them in how they live.

So your argument here is based largely on history. That is also why Anarchism is appealing, because we look at history and see the same mistake repeated over and over.