I get so sick of statists using a fictional narrative about children to represent their view on how adults would act in the real world without rulers.
I'm not labeling you a statist, I'm just sick of the "Lord of the flies" non-answer. The stories we tell ourselves are important and fiction has its place, but we have to move beyond that, IMO, when discussing practical solutions for millions of individuals living together in cities.
Again, not directing my reply at you directly as much as just venting.
People who mention "Lord of the Flies" also never seem to remember the ending. It was NOT "Thank goodness authority showed up and saved the day, so now we can have peace and harmony!" They were "rescued" by a WAR SHIP. (Also, they were children raised in a heavily authoritarian indoctrination camp, so having them fighting over who is "in charge" is not surprising.)
Yep. I remember and appreciative your discussion on the ending. It seems funny how much our brains connect to stories which shape our understanding even if the story or our interpretation of it is incorrect. Religion does this very effectively.
I was going to leave this alone, but your vent @lukestokes really gets my ire. Simply because someone says something about a novel, both you and @larkenrose jump on it. I'm HARDLY a statist. If anything, a "Libertarian with a conscience". Perhaps a "minarchist". But some laws still are necessary to a civilised society.
I totally agree we've gone way too far in the US, and the 'elites' are clamping down everywhere. So, the article resonates. It's a matter of degree.
Again, not directing my reply at you directly as much as just venting.
I wasn't calling you a statist, I just tire at the reference because it doesn't add anything of value for me, but demonstrates (from my perspective) how much people think in terms of labels, memes, and larger (often fabricated) ideas instead of first principles.
Glad my venting enabled your venting as well. We can both get each other worked up and that's okay. We can both learn and grow because of it.
I get so sick of statists using a fictional narrative about children to represent their view on how adults would act in the real world without rulers.
I'm not labeling you a statist, I'm just sick of the "Lord of the flies" non-answer. The stories we tell ourselves are important and fiction has its place, but we have to move beyond that, IMO, when discussing practical solutions for millions of individuals living together in cities.
Again, not directing my reply at you directly as much as just venting.
People who mention "Lord of the Flies" also never seem to remember the ending. It was NOT "Thank goodness authority showed up and saved the day, so now we can have peace and harmony!" They were "rescued" by a WAR SHIP. (Also, they were children raised in a heavily authoritarian indoctrination camp, so having them fighting over who is "in charge" is not surprising.)
Yep. I remember and appreciative your discussion on the ending. It seems funny how much our brains connect to stories which shape our understanding even if the story or our interpretation of it is incorrect. Religion does this very effectively.
I was going to leave this alone, but your vent @lukestokes really gets my ire. Simply because someone says something about a novel, both you and @larkenrose jump on it. I'm HARDLY a statist. If anything, a "Libertarian with a conscience". Perhaps a "minarchist". But some laws still are necessary to a civilised society.
I totally agree we've gone way too far in the US, and the 'elites' are clamping down everywhere. So, the article resonates. It's a matter of degree.
I wasn't calling you a statist, I just tire at the reference because it doesn't add anything of value for me, but demonstrates (from my perspective) how much people think in terms of labels, memes, and larger (often fabricated) ideas instead of first principles.
Glad my venting enabled your venting as well. We can both get each other worked up and that's okay. We can both learn and grow because of it.