Eight years ago, I had a conversation with my cousin about politics, one I’d never forget. We had both been Libertarian-minded for quite some time, and I figured he’d be just as excited as I was about this guy running for President, named Ron Paul. As I extolled the layers of wisdom and virtue of Dr. Paul, my cousin simply nodded and approved. Once he got a word in, he asked:
“Do you think we even need governments?”
I thought he was joking. There’s no way someone as smart as him could seriously support this notion. But he was serious, suggesting that if the free market is the Libertarian solution for things as important as food, why then not apply this principle to everything in our society.
“If things like schools are better managed by the government than the market, then shouldn’t the government run restaurants, grocery stores, everything?”
I couldn’t believe it. I laughed, but really it was a nervous response to the influx of subconscious knowledge streaming into my brain. If my cousin is theoretically on to something then this upends my entire understanding of the world around me. So clearly, it was time to buckle up and prove him wrong.
“But what about the military, schools, and roads, tough guy?”
I got him. No one can respond to that. China could just take over!
“If people want those things, then they will pay an appropriate amount for those services, as they are just that, services. They currently fall under the umbrella of a social concept called government, but if we were to remove the government from the equation, they would just be people doing jobs, jobs that would then get their value determined by the market, rather than by an arbitrary monopoly of force.”
“Force?”
“Well, yeah. That’s what distinguishes a government from a business or a charity, their ability to use force to accomplish whatever ends they seek through a veil of public acceptance. What happens if you don’t pay taxes because you don't want to pay for a war that you disagree with? Well, you get a letter first, if you ignore that, then maybe you’ll get another one or two in the mail before the men in blue show up. They will say that they are there to put you in a cage, and if you resist, or defend yourself, you can and likely will be killed. When you support any action of government, that’s what you’re supporting. Any law, regulation, and especially war, you’re supporting violence...against me.”
“Wait what? How am I supporting violence against you?”
“I pay my taxes as I don’t want to waste my life in jail, but I understand why I pay taxes. I pay them because I fear for my life if I don’t. But let’s say I was willing to stand on principle, right here and now, and refuse to pay for the next tax as I ideologically disagree with it. Let’s say I stand my ground to the point where the police show up, guns drawn to take me away. Would you still support your government? Would you support them doing violence directly against me to accomplish whatever ends you would like them to accomplish?”
“No, I suppose I wouldn’t. I could never support violence against you.”
“Great! Then you’re an anarchist. Welcome!”
“Wait, what?! I thought anarchists rioted and blew stuff up.”
“Yeah, that’s how the term is often conveyed today, but really it simply means ‘without rulers’. Do you need a ruler when you decide which cell phone to buy, which clothes to where, or who to date? Where is the line in our lives where all of a sudden a ruler is necessary? As I said, if a government isn’t necessary for something as important to us all as food, then I highly doubt it would be necessary for anything less important, such as education, roads, etc.”
I thought about all of this for a while. I couldn’t come up with a legitimate response. This didn’t stop my mouth from moving, except now it was all questions. “What about regulations? What about the poor? What about everything else the government does? How would it work?”
“Look if I had exact answers for how an anarchist society would operate, I’d be advocating for a dictator. I am not advocating for a planned and centralized world. I am arguing for emergent, peaceful solutions to complex social problems that we obviously haven’t properly addressed through violence to date. I have ideas for how I believe each service the government currently provides would operate in a free society, but I think that it is an ancillary discussion to the fundamental topic we’re talking about.”
Damn. He was right. I knew it. I couldn’t let him know. More nervous laughing...that’ll fix this.
“Ok, but where has there ever been anarchy?”
“How much of your life do you control without seeking permission from anyone? Probably much, much more than you realize. Have you ever been to the beach? Notice there is no central planner designating where people can set up their towels. Somehow, every day, thousands of people congregate on the beach and simply figure it out. No government or violence is required as this happens all over the world, with all sorts of different people, every single day. That's anarchy.”
“Yea, but Ron Paul sa...”
“Listen, I know you’ve gotten real passionate about Ron Paul and Austrian Economics. Believe it or not, I am too, except I just don’t care about politics at all. I understand sound money, just like you. I see how much better our lives would be if our money didn’t inflate away over time, and if we had an economy that operated around savings rather than misguided speculation. If you have gotten as into all of this as I have, then maybe check out some people I’d recommend to learn more about how I took the next steps to anarchism.”
“Like who?”
“Murray Rothbard, Frederic Bastiat, Stefan Molyneux, Tom Woods...I could go on for a while, but I’m sure that can get you started down the road and you will discover more great minds over time.”
“OK. I’ll check them out. I promise. I know you’re not crazy, so whatever or whoever got you to think this way, must have had intelligent things to say.”
I read, listened, and learned more than I ever could have imagined from these individuals over the next few years. My mind was blown, changed forever, all from this one conversation with my cousin. I am forever thankful for this, as it fundamentally changed how I viewed the world around me. When politics don’t matter, all that matters are the people you love.
Dropping politics was like dropping a bad addiction and I am a healthier human being because of it...
https://mises.org/library/books
This was actually really well written, and an excellent example of how the stigma of anarchy really keeps people from even trying to understand it. Very good read.
This is an example of a quality post that I wish would appear more here on steemit, very insightful.
anarchy is another one of those Hijacked words they've conditioned people to think means chaos and violence.
I should have covered it on the two posts I did about hijacked words. I covered Terrorism, Piracy, and Treason. Anarchy would be another good one.
Nice. I've seen this dialog between your friend and you unfold similarly many times. I didn't really have the benefit of someone like that. I kind of piece by piece and hearing little bits here and there put it together. Ron Paul was my gateway to this though...
I posted about another guy you didn't mention a couple of weeks ago. Check him out he is pretty unique:
https://steemit.com/anarchism/@dwinblood/anarchism-let-s-talk-about-lysander-spooner-and-no-this-has-nothing-to-do-with-cuddling
EDIT: I have been in the role your friend was in with you a couple of times though.
"I didn't sign shit" - Lysander Spooner
:)
Hey @derekareith .... I began to reply to this, but it turned into something of "blog post" size, so I have decided to just post it in my blog. But I have tagged you, as well as the URL for this post, in my post, and I hope you have the time to check it out to see what you think. I'm posting it as we speak, so give it about ten minutes before looking for it on my page. Thanks man. Cheers!
Thanks for blogging that, that would have been a frickin mega comment! :)
Umm, shouldn't you go to the source, Bakunin, Kroptokin, Goldman, Berkman, or Flores-Magon, rather than those that interpret the words of the originators?
I don't know Woods' name, but them other three pale in comparison to ones I named.
I enjoy reading the history of anarchism as much as anyone, but I don't think these guys had it entirely fleshed out. We certainly can't say that the anarchism as represented by Tom Woods, Ludwig Von Mises, or Murray Rothbard is the same type of anarchism proposed by say...Kroptokin. Additionally, if you're looking for a 'source' of anarchism... those named in your comment were mostly a generation or two after Frederic Bastiat. I know that Bastiat isn't necessarily always lumped in with pure 'anarchists' of the day, but I think The Law speaks for itself and was published in 1850 when Kroptokin was only 8 years old.
For a source of free market anarchism, I think Lysander Spooner and Frederic Bastiat would be the 'source' of recommendation.
There's always a tendency to want to find the OG - and that's a good thing. But just because Tom Woods is 100 years after these guys doesn't mean he hasn't been a pioneer in the field.
Just my $0.02 and cheers!
I agree, they didn't bring the revolution and therefore didn't have all the answers.
However the demons they failed to slay still control us today.
There are so many others I didn't mention, but this was really just the story of how I initially got into anarchism and those 4 happened to be my biggest influences at the beginning. @voluntarymess happened to mention Spooner alongside Bastiat, and he too was a big influence I forgot to mention. There are a lot of great thinkers from the past few hundred years who have all contributed to our way of thinking. I think at the end of it all, as long as we all recognize the value of consent, self-determination, and freedom, we will manage to make the world a much better place.
I hope you take the time to explore those authors I listed, anyone that makes his money from crapitalism is suspect.
The problem these historical figures had is that the centralized distribution systems we have today didn't exist, every endeavor was an individual one that grew to employ more folks.
Today we just coopt the structure that is the big box stores and fedex/ups, and run them for free.
I've been meaning to delve more into anarcho-communism/socialism/syndaclism for a while, simply for curiosity's sake. I have much on my plate now, but someday I will. I have always said that I am not attached to the conclusions but rather the principles which led me to the conclusions: logic, reason, and evidence. I will always be open to changing my conclusions so long as those changes are based on new evidence. However, if it can't be articulated, then I don't see how it should be at the top of my list of topics to explore.
Well, seeing as how Steemit is a business and the owners and users make money from it, and you are a user here, I can't possibly believe you on this one, as your actions speak louder than words. For thousands of years we had kings, nobles, serfs and slaves. It was pretty damn centralized back then. Just in the past decade we've seen things like ride sharing, air B&B, and crypto start to decentralize the world even more. [Sidenote - The effects of capitalism over the past 35 years, even with the State's manipulations:]
In an anarcho-capitalist society, that would be your choice, if you wanted. There's nothing stopping you, so long as violence or theft aren't involved.While it would be nice to make Berwick level money here my message is why I came.
I hope to reach somebody that can further my reach.
We can live in a world without bills, in peace, while working less than we do now.
Crapitalism is not going to give us that, small money will always bow to big money.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/624/624-h/624-h.htm
This book left me shaken, I was not prepared for the ideas that it presented.
However, the logic is there, and I had to adjust my viewpoint.
Perhaps it will for you, too.
It is not very long.
When you are ready to have that conversation on anarcho-communism you let me know.
Take care!